Tomorrow is Not Today

Kingsley Colley: There's over
emphasis in our Western culture

which I think is dangerous for
both guys and girls to fit in

this certain image, and it's not
. In fact, quite often when

people try to fit in that image,
it's actually really dangerous

and unhealthy. Welcome to the
Tomorrow Is Not Today podcast.

You've already started to create
the life you want just by being

here, designed for you as a
business professional so you can

be physically, mentally and
emotionally healthy, more

productive, less stressed and
living a life you truly love. My

name's Kingsley and thank you
for coming on another journey

with one of our uniquely
qualified professionals.

Jason Goodman is a Mayo Clinic
Certified Wellness Coach,

national Board Certified Health
and Wellness Coach, as well as a

Certified Nutritionist,
certified Exercise Physiologist.

Mate, you must have started
learning when you're about two.

That's insane. Jason helps
people reverse and prevent type

two diabetes, cardiovascular
disease and other ailments with

evidence-based approaches to
nutrition, exercise, stress

reduction, holistic wellness.
Most importantly, lasting

behavior improvement and
positive habit formation. As

part of this work, jason often
helps people lose weight and

keep it off, in part by helping
them overcome the common

challenges of yo-yo dieting and
emotional eating. Jason helps

people go from knowing what to
do and having good intentions to

consistently taking great care
of themselves in ways that help

them add years to their lives
and life to their years. Mate,

this is going to be so much fun.
Jason, welcome to the Tomorrow

Is Not Today podcast.

Jason Gootman: Thanks for having
me, kingsley, thanks for having

me.

Kingsley Colley: It has been a
little while We've been trying

to get you on. We finally got
there. Obviously you're on the

other side of the world. Up in
Maine, northeast USA Now I've

been to New York and absolutely
loved it and done a bit of a

trip down the east coast there,
but I've never quite got to

those northeastern states.
You're pretty close to Canada.

Jason Gootman: Very close to
Canada and a lot quieter than

what you experienced in New York
City.

Kingsley Colley: Yes, I got a
friend from up that way and

definitely a very different
thing. Jason, we're going to get

straight into it. Big question
to start off with, especially

after hearing your bio what does
it mean to truly be healthy?

Jason Gootman: I think in a word
it means to be alive, or maybe

two words, it means to be fully
alive. Right, technically we're

all alive if we're not dead,
right. But I think of aliveness

as more of a spectrum. We can
turn the dial down and be

technically alive, but muted. We
can be technically alive and

really fully alive, flourishing,
thriving. Something like that is

what wellness means to me, or
being well.

Kingsley Colley: Okay. That
being the case, if I was to say

to somebody are you healthy, are
you fit and healthy? What would

that really mean to you in your
profession and what you do

compared to what? I don't
imagine the answer to that would

be different for a lot of people
, depending on where they sit as

well.

Jason Gootman: It's a fun
question. It is definitely

different for different people.
There are objective and

subjective answers to it. I
think in the work I do, being

well for a lot of people means.
On the objective sense means

things like what we call their
biometrics, that's, their blood

sugar levels, their blood
pressure, their blood

cholesterol levels. Often weight
is part of that conversation.

There are sort of objective
measures. Having them in optimal

ranges is important to a lot of
people. Then, in the more

subjective, this is hilarious.
I said this to a client

yesterday. I work with people
that have master's degrees and

doctor's degrees and are
physicians and engineers and

scientists and all the things.
When we get to the heart of what

is being well to them, mean to
them, they end up saying

something like a six-year-old.
They say I want to feel good.

They say some version of I want
to feel good. I just find that

heartening that even when we
become adults and even when we

get educated and we become big
thinkers, life is fairly simple,

that most of us are trying to
feel as good as we can, as much

of the time as we can, or
something like that.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, 100%,
totally agree. It's really

interesting because we get stuck
into life sometimes and we do

all this stuff and we get these
little niggles or aches or we're

not quite feeling so good or
something. It's so easy to that

to become normal. We don't
notice it until we do get better

or we take the weekend off and
it's like whoa, I feel so much

better now.

Jason Gootman: Yeah, that's very
true. It's an interesting thing

about human nature is. First
interesting thing about human

nature is we get used to how we
feel. A fish in water doesn't

know they're in water, it just
gets used to it. A couple of

things can get our attention.
First is what you described,

kingsley, of by accident or
intentionally, we do something

that helps us feel better and we
get this glimpse of oh, that's

how good I can feel. I will say
what is probably more common and

I don't love this about human
nature, but it seems to be true

about human nature, it's often
feeling particularly bad in some

way gets our attention, and that
is often what prompts a person

to say, oh, I'm not well, I need
to do something about this.

There's a neat way of thinking
about this, kingsley, and I

don't have this. This is
cross-cultural, it's been said

in many different ways and it
goes something like and people

can interpret this however they
view spirituality, so this could

be God or nature or however
anyone thinks of those concepts,

but when God wants to get your
attention, god first whispers in

your ear, then knocks on your
door, then burns your home down.

It goes something like that and
I think with our well-being.

That's the experience.
So the early signs are we just

feel a little tired, we feel a
little, we lack some mental

clarity and that might get a
person's attention that, hey, I

need to be taking better care of
myself. It often doesn't. And

then something a little more
intense occurs and that might be

they have a medical session with
a physician and they do some

testing and some of those
numbers I described earlier are

going in the wrong direction.
That often gets people's

attention. If that doesn't, then
it can be something bigger, like

very severe back pain or at the
extremes.

This happens less these days,
having more. When I was a kid,

the middle-aged man would have a
heart attack and survive. But

that would be this big wake-up
call to start taking better care

of themselves. That doesn't
happen so much these days

because of better medication and
also better lifestyle in general

. But that's my experience with
wellness and sickness is that

there's sort of a there's
guardrails on both ends and life

is sort of telling us when we're
on track, off track, and With

more life wisdom we usually get
better at paying attention to

that.

Kingsley Colley: It's a really
interesting point. One of the

things we work with all the
people that we work with a lot

are professionals, like you've
mentioned, and business

entrepreneurs, whether they just
be startups or people with

bigger businesses and their
teams. What, what Sort of I

guess advice and recommendation
would you give them as far as

getting checked out, as far as
knowing when they are with their

health and doing something about
it, and how soon after them

going? I think this may be
something, but because I know in

Australia in particular, it's
like I should be right, mate, no

worries, and so we just keep
going and we don't tend to look

at things like that. What would
be your advice for people?

Jason Gootman: Well, you know, I
think it's. It might be a

slightly better question for a
physician or other medical

professional, but I think the
general Common sense advice is

to keep up with the the basic
recommended medical checkups. I

also think for the person that's
, you know, interested in really

living well and truly thriving,
that it can be an Interesting

opportunity to pay attention to
even the more the more subtle

cues In. From my perspective,
they really are nature's way, or

our body's way, of Telling us
that we need something else. And

this I think this is wonderful,
because they're not Problems,

they're their signals there,
their warning and the warnings

isn't even the right word,
kingsley, because that is a

negative connotation they're
there for another way to think

of them, or maybe friendly
nudges, and what's very cool

about this is their friendly
nudges toward what I think of as

meeting our needs.
Most people are familiar with

Maslow's hierarchy of needs and
this, this idea that humans have

a, have a known set of needs,
and I think thought has

developed on this quite a bit
since Abraham Maslow developed

that hierarchy.
But this is the simple,

straightforward way I think of
of self-care and wellness, which

is I have a known set of needs
and when I fulfill most of those

needs. Most of the time I will,
generally speaking, feel my best

and avoid sickness and and and
feeling bad in different ways.

And what's what's cool about
this opportunity is, let's say,

the, the thing I'm the, the
negative signal that I'm feeling

is fatigue and I determine that
I need more sleep to not feel

that fatigue. What ends up
happening is I get more sleep. I

don't feel the fatigue, but I'm
fulfilling that need of getting

more sleep. I get some other
things that I wasn't it wasn't

even aware that I was missing. I
might bring more focus to my

work, I might bring more
presence to my relationships. So

I think that's just very neat
that when we're feeling often

some way and if we can tune into
ourselves, explore what we, what

we need, develop the skills to
better meet that need,

everything gets better.

Kingsley Colley: That.
That is just brilliant.

I love. I love how you brought
out the fact that you've got

this issue. So you try and work
with that. But you don't just

work with that one thing. It's
not an isolation, because it's

got to do with a whole bunch of
other things as well.

And I think, like we heard in
your bio there, you you work

very holistically around
everything, because you we never

just work on one thing, because
everything's connected to so

many other parts of our body,
our being, our mind or that sort

of thing. So that was absolutely
brilliant. I loved that. And so,

going on a little bit further
from that, like I said, a lot of

the people you work with pretty
they work a lot, they've worked

hard, quite often high stress
there's a lot of that going on

as well, and people don't often
relate their physical being to

some of the things of Not
sleeping, being stressful Maybe

a little, being a little bit
irritable, that type of thing

that don't understand the
Connection. Can you explain a

little bit about how the
connection with exercise and

looking after your body
altogether affects all of the

rest of that?

Jason Gootman: it's a good
question and it's common in what

we might broadly call like high
performance worlds, and I Think,

yeah, it's a good question. I
think the jumping off point here

might be something like that
idea of we have a known set of

needs and the key to thriving is
to proactively meet most of

those needs. Most of the time,
we can almost think of that on a

Physiological level, on a
cellular, cellular level. You

know, we've got this collection
of many, many, many cells and

when we're doing the things that
that those cells require, those

cells function optimally. And
when we're coming up short on

what those cells need, those
cells fail to function optimally

.
And it's a neat paradox in high

performance worlds, because what
I'm gonna use we language for

this, because I would consider
myself maybe a recovering

overworker in in some areas of
my life and what we, most of us,

come to realize those of us that
are in recovery from overworking

is that it works until it
doesn't work. And what I mean by

that is when our major focus is
that Workout put, work, output,

work, output. We, we have a
degree of success, but well,

we're not tending to the other
areas of our lives. We're

essentially becoming weaker as a
person, we're becoming sicker in

some way and ultimately that
Begins to affect our ability to

perform. In that, in that high
performance realm that we're,

that we're making our focus and
it seems to me that the Best way

to be the most productive over
any considerable period of time

is art is to find the
intersections of working hard,

optimizing our relationships,
optimizing our sleep, optimizing

our rest, getting enough
exercise, optimizing our

nutrition, meeting any other
needs we have.

It's it's a paradox for many
people when they're stuck in the

Work, work, work mode because it
seems like well, how could

working one hour less a day Make
me more productive? But when you

think of it from the perspective
that you're not a machine,

you're a person, and that the
person that you are Will become

less productive, your saw will
become duller. If you are not

meeting enough those knees over
the time, you can start to come

to people generally, can Start
to come to see the need for that

, that balance. Does that make
some sense, kingsley?

Kingsley Colley: Oh, absolutely,
absolutely, a hundred percent

agree, and I'm I'm similar, only
I love working. I absolutely

love work and what I do, and I
have to force myself to stop

working. But I also know when I
do that I just feel so much

better, like even sometimes.
This doesn't happen anywhere

near as often as it should. We
might just go camping, grab the

car, the tent, go camping just
for a night somewhere and come

back and just being out there
and being not with anything In.

It's just one day, that's it.
And the difference, the mind,

the thoughts, the clarity, the
feeling, everything changes,

despite the fact of loving what
I do, without taking that break.

There's, there's a massive
difference there, and I totally

get exactly where you're coming
from.

Jason Gootman: I absolutely love
working too, and I have a close

colleague and we often joke with
each other that we're both

worker bees by nature, and work
does give me energy and feed me.

I think this is an important
Aspect of this conversation,

potentially something very
helpful for listeners to hear,

because there is a Public
conversation going on about not

overworking and and life balance
, and I Think for many of people

in that conversation I'm sort of
constructively criticizing some

of that conversation is they
sort of assume that most people

would prefer to Be lying in a
hammock or sitting on a beach

two-thirds of their week or
three-quarters of their week.

And Well, that might be true for
some people. It isn't true for

all of us, right, and some of us
really do. So. I think it's

important, if you are a worker
and you love working and you

love the work you're doing, to
not feel ashamed that you love

to work and to not feel like you
have to conform to what might be

the you know that's what's a
better way of saying this that

are this worker culture is
sometimes criticized as

Quote-unquote hustle culture,
and that's said in a negative

way.
But when I was growing up,

hustling was applauded and and
that's the way I look at that,

as as a man in my 40s now, is
that I want to live with life

balance and I still want to be a
hustler. I want me not in the

sense of like, I want to do my
best and I want to Do quality

work and I want to. I want to go
the extra mile when that's going

to provide One of my clients
with very good service or it's

going to mean I'm going to write
an article that's really going

to reach a lot of people. I I'm
trying to say is I don't think

we need to throw hustle or
effort or those kind of things

totally out with the bathwater.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, yeah, and
we are. We are all individual

people. We're all totally
different as individuals, what

we do and don't like, license
and it's got to fit in with who

we are and I think no matter
which end in the spectrum we are

or if we're in the middle there
it's pulling that whole balance

together, of making sure
Everything's working in

alignment with everything else
at the same time, and I think

that's a critical thing. So what
I want to step on to, I Could

actually have this conversation
like Eons, but obviously we've

got limited time With people
that do that are a bit like us,

who we understand I can't work
forever, but I do like my work

and I do work a lot.
Where do I fit in? How do I make

sure that I'm getting Exercise
and I'm drinking enough water

and I'm getting enough sleep and
I've got my time with my family

and I'm getting the right foods
and that sort of thing? Because

it's, when you think about it,
in in one set Sentence, so

that's a lot of stuff to do in a
day. How do you like? How do you

work with your clients to
actually get this all happening

together?

Jason Gootman: You know, a good
way to think about this is. What

I'm often asked and I was
actually asked this by a client

yesterday is which of those
things are the most important,

and it's it's a good question,
but from a Psychology

perspective, I think a better
question is which of those feels

more doable to you to start with
. So all of the things are all

of the things you mentioned are
important physiologically, but

from a making lifestyle
improvements perspective, what's

very helpful is to do the thing
that feels the most Attainable,

the most doable right away.
That's what I would encourage a

person to think about is if a
person, for example Thanks, oh,

I can, I can start getting to
bed 30 minutes earlier. That's

no problem, all I need to do is
Shut the television off 30

minutes earlier. I can. I can
absolutely do that in the

thought of Building 30 minutes
of exercising into the day feels

daunting.
Ultimately, the best thing to do

is to is to take on the better
sleep for a few weeks. And what

happens when? Because you can
view this like a cascade of

dominoes when we start to make
an improvement, we'll start to

you know, as you've if you've
mentioned a few times Kingsley

will start to feel better and
that starting to feel better

makes us want to feel even
better. In the example I shared,

when a person maybe is Getting
30 minutes more sleep for two or

three weeks, they're gonna have
more energy and then the

prospect of finding 30 minutes
of exercise, it's gonna look

that they're gonna have a
different perspective and might

feel a lot more doable. In
addition, they're gonna have a

feeling of pride that they made
it, they made an improvement,

they succeeded.
We in in psychology that's known

as self-efficacy and it's that
feeling of I Can do this thing

and this thing in this case
means making lifestyle

improvements and if a person has
been sort of stuck in a rut for

months or years, to have success
with any lifestyle improvement

is gonna make them feel good,
make them feel confident, and

that's gonna Make them want to
do more and do more and do more

gradually. Last thought on this
this is in contrast to trying to

do it all at once, trying to be
perfect. That can stop us in our

tracks.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, 100%, and
it's this, this sort of, is A

natural segue into building
these habits, is what I'm see

happening here. So you're
talking about I, what can you?

And I think that's fantastic
advice because it's easy. You

know, you and I with a, you know
what we're passionate about and

what we work to help people with
to go. There's all these things.

It's like when you go to the
dentist and the dentist looks in

your mouth and you're like you
feel like your whole mouth's

gonna collapse in the next 12
months If you don't have all

this $10,000 worth of work done,
and it's just not true, and so

I'm glad you you brought that up
about Doing those little things,

so picking those things, which
is a great way to do it. So how

would you suggest if, if people
say, let's say they're picking

things, turn those things into
habits, because one of the

things you do is help people put
these habits into place for

long-term benefit, which, to me,
is what it's all about?

Jason Gootman: It's the ultimate
challenge, right? It's the

biggest gift you could give to
someone if your job is to help

them experience better wellbeing
, because better wellbeing is

concomitant with taking care of
ourselves, and taking care of

ourselves isn't about knowing
what to do. It's not about

having good intentions, it's
about consistently doing it, and

consistently doing it. The
phrase consistently doing it is

often thought of as a willpower
kind of thing, but to what

you're bringing up, kingsley, a
habit is, by definition,

something we do automatically.
It's action on autopilot, and so

if you can teach someone how to
do these things on autopilot,

eventually no one can wave a
magic wand and help another

person develop a habit, but over
some weeks and months you can

help a person develop habits
then you've given them a gift

that will last for the rest of
their life without you needing

to help them. So, yeah, to me,
forming habits is what this is

entirely about.

Kingsley Colley: And so if they,
you're suggesting, if they let's

work on the sleep safer a little
while, whether it's a week, two,

three weeks, whatever it is, and
then we'll start implementing

some of the other things as we
go along. So, like you said

before, getting some small wins,
is that how you would work and

suggest they do? And obviously
everyone's a little bit

different as well.

Jason Gootman: Yeah, I mean,
let's say we already were at

that point and the person has
identified the habit they wanna

form is getting to bed by 10
o'clock PM six nights a week, at

least six nights a week. That's
actually the first step right

there is to get away from. If a
person says to me is the habit I

wanna form is I wanna sleep more
, that's not specific enough.

You have to be very clear about
the habit you wanna form. You

wanna define it in very specific
terms. If it's too vague. I

wanna sleep more, I wanna eat
better, I wanna exercise more.

It's not enough for our minds to
attach to them and make

significant progress. It's too
vague.

Second thing I would highly
recommend is to, if a person's

doing this by themselves, if
they're working with a coach,

reflect on what will this habit
bring to your life. So imagine

yourself six weeks into the
future. You're sleeping 30

minutes more, six days a week.
What will it bring to your life?

And this is important, kingsley,
because we don't want a person

to say I wanna sleep 30 minutes
more because my physician told

me to. I wanna sleep 30 minutes
more because my spouse thinks

it's a good idea. What we need
to get to is why it is very

personally important to that
person.

This is sometimes talked about
in pop psychology as your why,

and this will be very different
for every person. So if a person

says I'm starting to fall behind
at work and it's very important

to me to finish this book I
wanna write by the end of the

year, that's super powerful to
know. If a different person says

I'm having a hard time keeping
up with my kids, having a, being

a good dad is very important to
me. Those are two different whys

and it's very important that
each person gets very clear on

what habit they wanna form, why
it's important to them, and then

to start to take small steps in
that direction. So I'll add one

more thought and then pause. The
goal might be to ultimately

sleep 30 minutes more, but what
they might do in the first week

is sleep 10 minutes more or 15
minutes more, or sleep 30

minutes more, but only do it on
the weekends, whatever it might

be. So I'll take a pause. Those
are three important first steps

in forming a habit.

Kingsley Colley: That's really
cool, because you've taken this

I've gotta do this big thing and
broken it down to that's easy, I

can do that and I love it's just
implementing the simple, easy

things and that covers so much
ground. And then we can put that

with exercise, with food, with
water, with all the different

stuff that's involved and
whatever we wanna work in and

obviously work out why it's
important to you, which I think

is a critical factor. So that's
also that you've brought that up

. I wanna change tactics for a
little bit.

One of the other things that you
work with and not I don't wanna

talk specifically about the
yo-yo dieting thing, but what I

wanna talk about or wanna ask
you about is the difference

between being healthy and having
the bikini body or the beach

body or whatever it is for a guy
or a girl, because there is a

big difference in these two
things. And I guess one of the

things I wanna do is dispel some
of the myths around what

actually health is and what size
is and that sort of thing, and

take off some of the pressure
for people to feel like they

have to be somebody. That's
unrealistic, unattainable and

not who you are anyway, because
want people to be themselves.

Our taglines create the life you
want, which is being happy. So

can you talk around that about
the yo-yo dieting, why it

happens, how you help people get
off that and help people get

healthy, not some fake body
image that we may see all over

the place.

Jason Gootman: You know,
excellent question. There's

definitely a difference between
fitness. There's definitely a

difference between appearance
and wellness, and diet culture

is a place that creates some of
these problems, sort of espouses

these ideas of go on this diet
and this could sound a little

dramatic, but I actually think
this is the spirit of diet

culture your whole life will be
better, like, if you can. It's

an oversimplification. It's sort
of, if you can avoid these foods

, you'll go to heaven, right,
like you get everything, and if

you don't, you go to hell. Right
, you're quote unquote, bad,

right.
And yeah, I think the way out of

this I've alluded to in the
broader context when I use the

phrase self-care is about
proactively meeting most of your

needs most of the time.
If we could sort of hone in on

that statement, we can think of
meeting well as proactively

meeting your food needs most of
the time.

And a way to think about this
that's outside of the thinking

that's in diet mentality is very
simple it's to tune into your

hunger and to start to eat when
you're hungry and start to eat

more deliberately, and then to
learn to stop when you're full

and to have a almost child-like
relationship with food, as

opposed to these rigid,
prescriptive relationships with

food that people can get caught
up in. Also important to this is

to enjoy food right. There's a
saying that goes something like

people will say this in
different ways, but the spirit

of it is something like if it
tastes good, it's bad for you,

if it tastes bad, it's good for
you. And this creates this

unfortunate double bind that
there is food, on the one hand,

that is enjoyable and delicious
and food, on the other hand,

that has no taste and no flavor
but is good for you, and I help

people find the intersection
between food that they enjoy and

food that nourishes their body.
I think that, hopefully, is a

start to an answer to your
question.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, yeah,
absolutely, and that helps with

all the food area and hopefully
gets eliminates some of the,

because obviously we can go so
deep into that section alone.

But I'm glad you've kept it at a
nice simple, easy level for

everybody to be able to grasp
and work with that. And then so,

talking about size of people and
getting because obviously the

food is it's about 80% of this
whole factor anyway but people

get often held up about their
size and what they look like in

their physique and that sort of
thing which to a degree, is

important. Yes, I get that, but
there's the over emphasis in our

Western culture which I think is
dangerous for both guys and

girls to fit in this certain
image and it's not in fact,

quite often when people try to
fit in that image, it's actually

really dangerous and unhealthy.
I want people to be healthy.

Jason Gootman: No, no, I think
that's well said and I have some

personal experience with it. It
goes back, but it goes back to

being an overweight teenager and
not having the skills or the

support to deal with In
retrospect, in hindsight. I

really wasn't that overweight
and if I was able to get some

support and use it as okay,
maybe you're trending in a

slightly unwell direction. Let's
help you learn some new skills.

As a teen, you're just 13.
There's some new skills you can

learn around eating habits or
moving your body, and let's work

on that.
But what I did is internalized

all that over emphasis you're
describing and did some things

that were very self-harmful to
not feel all of those pressure

from all that pressure from the
people around me, and it's

amazing how deep this runs.
One way this strikes me almost

on a weekly basis is when I'll
have a client in their 70s and

they have wellness goals and
they're often very deep and very

profound of why they wanna be
taking better care of themselves

, why they wanna live well, why
they wanna experience better

wellbeing, and even someone with
70 years life experience will

often make a comment of sort of
being down on themselves for not

having the body they think they
should have and we do the best

to work with that and help them
accept their bodies for what

they are and to focus on have
more of a wellness perspective

than an appearance perspective
and knowing to your point that,

wait, it doesn't not mean
anything, it has an association

with our wellbeing but not to
make it that everything.

Cause I've legitimately seen
people, kingsley, who are making

remarkable improvements in many
areas of their life and feeling

great and feeling happy, only to
be able to negate all of that by

saying I still have some love
handles, or I'm one size higher

than I was when I was in high
school, or whatever it is. So it

is. I think it's an area that
requires skill to work with, but

I think even more so requires a
lot of acceptance, a lot of

compassion, a lot of kindness to
help a person find their way out

of that mentality.

Kingsley Colley: When you say
that a lot of acceptance and

compassion and kindness, is that
them to themselves or other

people to them?

Jason Gootman: I think it's a
great question. I think

ultimately I would say both
ultimately a person to the

learning to do that with
ourselves is very important, and

I think the paradox is one of
the ways we learn to do that is

when someone in our life,
personally and or professionally

is able to provide that for us a
little bit, not in a not in a

codependent way, not like
they're accepting me and I don't

need to accept myself, but sort
of if they can provide some of

that, I can learn to do that for
myself. And the person doing it

for the other person is sort of
like a pair of training wheels

on a kid's bike they're helping
them learn to do it until they

can do it without the training
wheels and right off by

themselves.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, and I
think we all need that from time

to time in various scenarios of
life, every single one of us.

I'm gonna take that just a
little bit deeper and I know

this could go in all sorts of
directions, but I don't know how

you're gonna answer this
question, but looking at

people's relationship with food,
the way they see themselves, the

way they see their body and
physique and that sort of thing,

how much does the past life and,
like you mentioned, as a kid, as

a teenager, and your feelings
and things and a current mindset

affect how we view ourselves,
what is good and what is bad and

what we're striving for?

Jason Gootman: I mean, I think
there's no doubt that both our

past experiences and our current
mindset affect all of that. I

think working with both of those
things can be helpful. I think

what's generally most helpful is
to, in the spirit of what we

talked about earlier, with some
of the basics of starting to

form new habits is to envision a
new relationship with food, a

new relationship with one's body
, and to start to take baby

steps toward that in the present
and start to. I mean, it's

fascinating stuff and I know
this is in the realm of the work

you do. It's a transformation,
it's becoming a new person with

regard to your relationship with
food or your relationship with

your body, and what I'll say is
I see it happen all the time.

It here's the beautiful thing
about these kinds of

transformations they don't
happen overnight. Like they

don't. You can't wave a magic
wand, but they also don't take

forever. If one is ready to make
these kind of transformations,

gets some guidance and support,
they make 10% progress in the

first couple of weeks, another
10% progress in the next couple

of weeks, another 10% progress,
and people look up three months

later, six months later, nine
months later, and they're no

longer that person burdened by
maybe the way their parents

talked about food or talked
about weight when they were six,

seven, eight years old. There's
a lot of hope in this realm.

People really can make big
changes.

Kingsley Colley: I love that,
jason, the fact that it's not

about perfection. None of us are
talking about striving or aiming

for perfection. What we're doing
is talking about who do you

really wanna be and how can we
help you get there. How can you

help yourself get there? Just by
taking little steps, being

patient, empathetic, like you
said with yourself, being having

other people around us who can
give us that support and empathy

and that sort of thing. So, no
matter where we are or what's

going on, that we're just taking
that progress, step by step,

like you said, the baby steps to
get to where we want to go. And

I think to me that mindset and
that whole programming is so

critical to have that, to not
feel guilty or ashamed or not

being who I want to be and I
should be there. It's like no,

no, we're all on a journey. It's
a great journey that every

single one of us is on. It's a
brilliant.

Jason Gootman: I really
appreciate how you said that and

I appreciate, earlier you
sharing your tagline I often say

that underneath being a
nutritionist and an exercise

physiologist and a wellness
coach, and if anyone follows me

on social media they'll see this
that the bottom hashtag that I

put on every single one of my
posts says empowerment and I'm

going to be placing them all
together, right, nevermind, you

know. You know work makes a big
impact on me. I've put it up in.

I think deep to this work is
we're learning to empower

ourselves and those of us that
are working in this realm as

professionals. We're learning to
empower others to live the life

we want to live, to be the
people we want to be. I'll share

a thought on this that I think
your listeners will appreciate.

In the personal growth realm, I
think of there as being three

orientations, and I wouldn't
think of them as being better

than the other. They're often
stepping stones. Most people

start with the first orientation
, which I think of as a goals

orientation. So it's I want to
achieve A, b and C, and that

motivates them to make
improvements to their behavior,

to move toward one day,
achieving A, b and C. The second

orientation we're talking about
today is a habits orientation.

So that's, I want to be the
person who consistently gets

enough sleep. I want to be the
person who consistently spends

high quality time with my family
. The person is thinking about

how they want to be living.
And then the most proximal

orientation I think of as an
identity orientation. That is,

I'm the kind of person who takes
great care of myself. I just

have embodied that identity. And
what's very neat is when we work

on our. What I find so powerful
about that is we literally in

the same lifetime, can become a
different person. So let's use

that example we've been talking
about. I've been in my lifetime

a person who hates my body like,
is disgusted by my body and has

a very this is a strong analogy,
but almost like slave master

relationship with myself and my
body. And I, in the same

lifetime, have become someone
who has a relationship that is

deeply harmonious with myself
and my body and my whole being,

and is deeply accepting,
compassionate and kind toward

myself. And we truly can make
those kind of identity changes,

and not for the sake of doing so
, but because doing so means

we're happier and healthier and
we experience life with more,

you know, with more peace and
more joy and all that good stuff

.

Kingsley Colley: That's awesome
and that's actually a really

good analogy for what tomorrow
is not today is all about,

because no matter where we are
now, tomorrow is not today. We

can change it and we can have a
new things going on. Everything

goes in cycles, and so can our
mindset, our bodies, every part

of us can go like that, which is
fantastic analogy. Like I said

earlier, I'd so love to keep
chatting right now, but we're

getting close to time, but
there's always a couple of

questions that we come at at the
end. The first question I want

to ask you is we're talking
about creating the ultimate

tomorrow. What, to you, is the
ultimate tomorrow?

Jason Gootman: It's. I think
it's an ever, ever, ever

evolving challenge to I'll go
back to my opening comments to

feel as fully alive as I can. I
think it's in our nature to and

I hope it's clear from our
conversation so far that I mean

that in the most holistic way.
So that means happiness, health,

it means energy, it means
connection, and I think it's a

it's a. It's a, it's a challenge
, in part because the

technologically advanced world
we live in makes some elements

of thriving easier and it makes
some elements of thriving harder

. And so, as individuals or
families or communities, I think

it's an ongoing challenge to
sort of never forget our true

human nature and never forget
our true human needs and then

together do the best we can to
help each other meet as many of

those needs as we can, as as
often as we can. That's really

how I think about.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah, now
that's awesome. So the second

part of the question is how do
you go about creating your

ultimate tomorrow?

Jason Gootman: So it's a. It's a
. It's a big question. I think

it's a good jumping off point to
something I was hoping to get a

chance to mention. I have this
concept that I refer to that as

the seven evidence based keys to
lasting behavior improvement and

positive habit formation, and
what we spoke about for 10 or so

minutes earlier in the
conversation were three of those

. I think the answer you know
I'm not doing this as an

intentional like come get more
information from me, but I think

the answer to that that I've
worked out in this work that I

consider my life's work, is to
really lean into all seven of

these evidence based keys. So
when people check out my website

or follow me on social media,
they can find a special report I

wrote. A special report is just
fancy for a big, thorough

article that gets into all, gets
into all seven of these. And

it's such a powerful question,
kingsley, because it's my work

to answer that question. It's
just hard to answer it in in,

say, one sentence.

Kingsley Colley: These seven
things you put together. They

sound awesome and I know
personally watching you on

LinkedIn reading the articles
that you put up and the comment

not just the articles that you
put up, but what you actually

write in there as well. It's
really, really interesting in

your points of view on things.
I've really come to appreciate a

lot, which is why I was
desperately wanting to get you

on here. How do people get a
hold of you or follow you?

Jason Gootman: Yeah, what I
would suggest is first the best

places my website, my business,
the name of my business is

Puvima, puvima, so just
Puvimacom. That's where you can

get connected to me and every
way that links up to all my

social media pages and all that.
Or people can just directly look

up my name on social media pages
and what I humbly hope to offer

is there's so much pop
psychology out there and some of

it's helpful and some of it is
not so helpful, and what I've

distilled in a lot of my
messaging that special report I

referred to articles that I
write, even social media posts

are all intended to help a
person go from knowing what to

do, go from having good
intentions, go from having

willpower in spades to using
evidence-based approaches to

transform themselves. And
because I think that's in many

cases the missing link for
people, they find that willpower

isn't quite enough and if they
can lean into evidence-based

ways to make these
transformations, they end up

combining their ability to work
hard with an ability to work

smart and they make a lot more
progress.

Kingsley Colley: Yeah,
absolutely. Now, that's

fantastic and that's obviously
all going to be in the show

notes as well, and we'll put the
links and things to your social

media as well for people to get
a hold of you, be able to follow

you a little bit more that way,
because it's definitely

absolutely worth following and
reading and just keeping up to

date and all the latest stuff.
It's not just stuff you're

regurgitating, you're on the
forefront of what's going on and

all of this sort of thing with
research and things as well,

which is what I really love,
because science has changed it.

Well, it's not changing. I guess
we're learning new things all

the time. It's a better way to
put it. Jason Goodman, thank you

so much for coming on. The
podcast. Tomorrow is Not Today

podcast. Really appreciate that.
Actually, that's one question I

was going to ask you when did
you get the name from your

business name? Is it Puvima or
is it Peggy's name?

Jason Gootman: At one point in
the development of my business.

Many coaches are simply using
their own name, using their

personal name. I got the advice
to come up with a name that was

bigger than me. It's going to
help me develop some of the

things I want to develop in the
future, including an online

wellness community. I've used
the word probably three or four

times in this conversation. I
like the word thrive and

thriving and those kinds of
words To make a long story short

.
If you try to get the domain

name for any version of a word
like that, it's impossible. If

you try to trademark it, it's
impossible. The next advice I

got was make up a word like Zoom
or Google Exxon, these kind of

things. I struggled with that,
kingsley, because I'm the kind

of person that I wanted the name
to have some meaning. I did

certain idea-storming activities
to see if I could come up with a

name that had some meaning. I
was going through my favorite

quotes. One of my favorite
quotes is the greatest wealth is

health. That's from the
gentleman known as Virgil, but

his full name is Publius
Virgilius Morrow. Puvima is the

PU from his first name, the VE
from his second name and the MA

from his last name. That's where
Puvima is from.

Kingsley Colley: I love stories.
I love stories. Backstories is

always interesting. Thank you so
much. I really appreciate your

time joining us all the way from
America and sharing the wisdom,

just simplifying how simple this
is and how everybody can take

little steps to get where they
want to go, create their life,

to own and create. Thank you,
jason. Have an awesome day.

Jason Gootman: Thank you for
having me, I appreciate it.