Tomorrow is Not Today

Speaker 1: Good mental health
comes from for me, from good

physical fitness. It helps me
get to a point where I've got

the mental health to be able to
be resilient and take on a

challenge.

Speaker 2: Welcome to the
Tomorrow Is Not Today podcast.

You've already started to create
the life you want just by being

here, designed for you as a
business professional, so you

can be physically, mentally and
emotionally healthy, more

productive, less stressed and
living a life you truly love. My

name's Kingsley, and thank you
for coming on another journey

with one of our uniquely
qualified professionals.

Today's guest, todd O'Connor,
lived the typical Sydney

corporate, high-flying lifestyle
. Corporate career had

everything going for him
Corporate banking, high end

property development and all
sorts of other things in the

midst there as well, driving
along the road in Sydney to work

. One day, taking forever to get
to work, he realized this wasn't

for me. I'm stuck in a job,
being told what to do every day,

even though it looked fantastic
from the outside. Decided to

pivot, his career ended up
buying surf stores, owning a

number of those and changing
again a couple of other

businesses to where he owns
another business today, helping

a lot of other career people in
their small businesses as well.

You want to hear this story
because it's going to take you

from maybe where you are today,
learning how to pivot, the

thought process, the mindset
that goes into pivoting and the

difference it can make in your
life, but you do need to take

courage. Good morning, todd, and
welcome to the Tomorrow Is Not

Today podcast. Thank you for
joining us today.

Speaker 1: Good morning,
Kingsley, and thanks for your

invitation. Looking forward to
it.

Speaker 2: Now me too. Just
catch up. The other day and what

we've been talking about over a
little period of time has been

very, very interesting to me and
it's certainly. I want to get

your perspective on things
because I think it's a little

bit different perspective to
what a lot of people have, but

at the same time, there's a lot
of people going through the

phase of life that you've been
through and I think it can help

with some of the ways of
pivoting, not pivoting decisions

to make, not to make, and that
sort of thing.

Speaker 1: So sure, absolutely
yeah.

Speaker 2: Todd, currently your
business is my Pharmacy

Appraisal. That's what it's
called, is it?

Speaker 1: Correct.

Speaker 2: Yep, yep, just have
to guess my Pharmacy Appraisal,

which is fantastic, but it's not
where you started, and that's

what I want to go back to. So,
to hit us off, like we like to

in this podcast, straight up,
tell us how do you know if it's

time to pivot in your career,
especially if things are going

really well for you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, look,
interesting question, kingsley.

And my career pivot, my big
career pivot, happened probably

in my mid 30s.
I'd been a corporate merchant

banker for many, many years and
had been headhunted across to

one of my major clients and it
was still very much in that

corporate finance role that I
was in, but I'd found myself in

a situation where, although
enjoying the fruits of my labour

with respect to status and
income etc what I was finding

was that I was leaving home in
the morning and my small

children were in bed, and I was
getting home in the evening and

my kids were in bed, and often
I'd have to attend events on

weekends and things like that,
and it was just not in my makeup

. It wasn't what I wanted to do,
and in fact it was one day

driving along beside on Grand
Parade at Botany and I think I'd

travelled from the Shire into
the city in Sydney and I think

I'd travelled about two or three
k's in about 40 minutes and in

traffic, and I just said to my
wife later on that evening this

is not me. I can't see me doing
this for another 15, 20 years.

This is not what I want to do.
It's time that we created

something for ourselves, and I
think what it really comes down

to is basically having the
courage to back yourself, to

know that you've already picked
up some good skill sets and

you've got a fairly reasonable
understanding of how life works.

But so we decided to pursue
something that essentially was

my passion, which was surfing,
and so we ended up purchasing

and owning several surfstores on
the Sunshine Coast for about 14

or 15 years. But back to your
question, that it was really

what I was doing was enjoyable,
there was great status, there

was great money but it was
tearing away at me, on my

insides, around what I really
wanted to do with my wife and

with my family, and so the time
came to make a pivot. I think it

was absolutely apart from
marrying my wife and having my

children the best thing that I
could have ever done.

Speaker 2: It's really
interesting, Todd, how you go

there, because I think a lot of
people in that position where

they've got the status, they've
got the money, their careers

looking good and from the
outside a lot of people be going

, wow, that's amazing. I'd love
to be in that position. But

while that's going on, on the
inside it sounds like there's a

bit of a turmoil going on and
almost like you didn't want to

be there. How long did it
actually take to get to that

point where you made a decision?

Speaker 1: Well, look, it wasn't
actually all that hard.

Where I'd gone to was an
exciting role and we were doing

some really high-end finance
sort of things, but it came with

a lot of pressure as well. So
there was the pressure of what

was going on with my family life
, but also pressure in that

corporate world, and that my
employer was a particularly

difficult and challenging
taskmaster as well. So I'd be

mowing the lawns on a Saturday
afternoon and be getting phone

calls from him and things like
that. So it basically said to me

is it my life or is it his life,
and where do I want to devote my

time and my energy? And so it
wasn't a particularly difficult

situation for me at the end of
the day to say look, the most

challenging aspects of something
like this you're going from a

corporate world to a small
business.

You need to raise capital. Where
does the capital come from? The

capital often comes from your
home, and so we in fact sold our

home. We in fact sold an
investment unit that I had with

my brother, and so we used that
capital to invest into business.

So that was a bigger challenge
at the end of the day was taking

that capital and punting on
yourself that you're going to be

able to turn it into something,
turn it into some success which

we were able to do, which was
also very pleasing.

Speaker 2: There's so much in
there and what you're just

saying, and I can just hear
people's heads going around at

the moment asking questions,
questioning themselves what do I

do, where do I go? How does this
all fit in?

There's so much, and the good
news is and the reason you're

here is because you've been
through this, you know what it's

like mentally, on your family,
physically, all of that sort of

thing to make that happen.
Obviously you moved into this

position because of career,
money and that helping. So were

you feeling like this when you
were in your original commercial

banking role or was it not
really felt then until later on?

Speaker 1: No well, good
question. I'd actually moved

banks several times. I think
that there was a little bit of a

restless spirit there already. I
sensed that I had a little bit

more of an entrepreneurial
spirit than probably was

welcomed in the banks, in the
banks even today. But back then

it was followed the process. So,
yeah, you had the opportunity to

build relationships.
But in terms of a spirit of

entrepreneurship, I think that
that's Look, some people are

made to be career bankers or
career whatever's, and good luck

to them. I think that wasn't the
case for me. But what they did

do for me was that they gave me
a really good grounding in

analysis. It gave me a really
good understanding in what the

corporate world's all about. It
gave me a really good

understanding of why it's such
an important thing for example,

an obscure thing, but to diary
note important conversations. So

, because I know later on it
helped me in really good stead

when I found myself in some
commercial situations that were

a bit challenging.
But look, it gave me some

exposure to what's expected of
you when you go out there and

you sign personal guarantees and
you sign up for large amounts of

debt, etc. Etc. You take on a
director's responsibilities that

go with all of that sort of
thing. So there's nothing wrong

with absolutely the grounding
that I got in a commercial bank

environment.
It was how to work with all

sorts of different people, the
chain of command, how to prepare

submissions and papers that
would get approved so that they

were well researched and well
thought through, and then to be

able to take that and bring it
into a small business

environment where I went through
a process of going through

exactly what I would expect a
client to be able to produce,

but at the same time smart not
smart enough, but understood

that I needed to get good advice
from an accountant, good advice

from a solicitor, but
recognizing at the same time

that they would give you good
accounting advice and they would

give you good legal advice. But
that's not necessarily

commercial advice. It's like
that's that little gray area in

the middle that you work out
whether or not you they'll tell

you all the risks, you work out
whether or not you've actually

been prepared to accept those
risks, etc.

So I think commercial banking
gave me a really good

understanding of mapping that
transition out and then really

joining the client that I was
headhunted across to, and then

finding that my time was his
time sort of triggered me to go

across to. Okay time to really
test my entrepreneurial skills

and my entrepreneurial spirit.

Speaker 2: So when you were in
that phase of deciding what to

do and the high pressure and
that sort of thing you mentioned

a little bit earlier that I did
have a little bit of a toll on

the family, as you imagine it
definitely would have how did

that affect you? I guess
mentally, with your sleep I know

you're a fairly fit sort of guy
how did that affect your

routines and all that sort of
thing? Could you have them in

place or was that sort of a
little bit dictated to from an

external position?

Speaker 1: So you sort of hit
the nail on the head there a bit

and I know that I do my best
work when I'm at my fittest and

that can be good. Mental health
comes from for me, from good

physical fitness. It helps me
get to a point where I've got

the mental health to be able to
be resilient and take on a

challenge. And that's been my
mantra and it's been my doctrine

since my days, my commercial
banking days. I love sport, I

love my swimming. I love, for
example, back in those days I

was big into footy, soccer,
touch football, all of those

sort of things.

Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever it is,
you can get into it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and just
found that that enabled me to

maintain a level of mental
health that I needed to maintain

to be able to take on those
challenges. And look the

interesting thing that comes out
of okay, you're leaving a

corporate environment where
you're working long hours and

you're often called upon on the
weekends.

What's going to be the
difference when you move into

small business? I mean, I moved
into retail, I'm into surf store

ownership in retail. What's
going to be the difference? Why

do you think, todd, all of a
sudden, moving from that to that

is going to alleviate your
problems with respect to

spending time with your family?
But look the truth, be honest.

The honest truth of that is that
as a small business owner, you

can walk away when you want to,
you can set aside time, you can

train people to step into roles
as managers or as understudies,

and so you have got the
opportunity to drive your kids

to school in the morning, to
leave at work a little early and

go and pick them up and do some
rugby training, or to go and

watch some netball being played,
to share those responsibilities

with your wife as your kids grow
, whereas you're just not able

to do that in a corporate
environment. Those opportunities

that might have changed a little
bit with work from home, but

that wasn't the case around when
I was in the corporate world.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think for
the most part it's still not as

flexible as it was.
And I must admit that's one of

the things I love about being
self-employed is you can get to

do those things when you want to
.

So a good example even just
today is my daughter. It was her

birthday yesterday but she was
off with friends camping at

Morton Island so I didn't get to
see her. But I took off this

morning and went around and just
spent a couple of hours with her

this morning and just doing that
in her house and just having the

flexibility to be able to do
that is a phenomenal thing and I

think one of the things that
people see as well as if I've

got this corporate and things
are going well financially it's

good and I'm climbing the ladder
and it all looks good and you've

got the toys and all that sort
of things happening. But I think

an alignment of values is one of
the most important things we can

give ourselves in our career or
what we do with our life, and it

sounds like that's what you
decided as well when you changed

from. It's a big change from big
corporate finance to surf store

small business owners.

Speaker 1: Look, you know
there's challenges in. You know

there's awesome challenges in
the world that I was in, but

there's just as many and just as
rewarding and just as many

fantastic challenges involved in
small business as well. It's,

you know, it's what's driven us,
my wife and I, in our years in

small business was, you know, we
loved the challenge, but we

loved the relationships that we
built with people as well. You

know, I was a relationship
manager in corporate banking and

I enjoyed developing those
relationships. But it was no

different.
Moving into the, into the surf

industry and into retail, we had
some fantastic young people work

with us and it was one of the
most rewarding things that we

could ever have done was to
bring young people through from,

you know, 15, 16-year-olds right
through to finishing university.

You know we literally had over
100 people working for us over

that period of time and you know
we're still in touch with them

many years later and watch them
grow and start to have their own

families. It was incredibly
rewarding. But then the

challenges of, you know, making
sure, the cash flow challenges,

the meeting and commitments,
meeting deadlines, meeting

timelines around, stock buying,
getting a head around all of

those new you know it was a
basically became apprentice

apprentices even though we were
business owners in the retail

trade. But we, you know, we went
on to win many, many awards as a

result of that.
It's it was. It's just about

application, it's just about
passion, it's about enjoying it.

But we, you know, the other
thing was that we were able to

bring up our kids in it as well.
So our daughter Lauren and our

son Ben both became employees
and enjoyed the experience as

well.
So it's it's it's it's a great

environment. Small business as
is corporate, it's just a matter

of you know. My brother is a
case in point of a corporate

banker that's, you know, done
that his entire life and and

he's obviously enjoyed it and
done well out of it, and that's

the case for myself and that's
that's.

Speaker 2: I'm glad you
mentioned that, because I want

to go back a little bit, because
there's obviously certain people

who they love that corporate
lifestyle and they don't want to

do anything else. They, they
love that, which is fantastic.

So for those types of people who
who do love being in that place,

how do you get through? Because
obviously there's a lot of

mental toughness you have to
have there and a lot of

resilience and need to be able
to have just the same as there

is in small business, but it's,
it's a different feel. It comes

in, it looks a little bit
different, I guess. How do you

handle that sort of thing and
how do you get yourself in the

right position to be able to
keep going when that happens in

a corporate role where you don't
have as much, I guess, time

flexibility?

Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I think
that that's a huge challenge for

people in that position and, and
I think it's a huge challenge

for their employers as well, and
I really think it's something

that that more and more large
businesses need to to taking

taking into account that. You
know, look, they're getting paid

time off and they get four weeks
annual leave or whatever it is,

and then after 10 years they get
some superannuation sorry some

long service leave, etc. Etc.
But you know, taking the time to

be able to, look, it's a
different type of person. That's

someone that's I always use the
word they know how to play a

political game.
Politics is a really big thing

in small, in large corporates.
You know, sometimes you've just

got a bite your tongue and not
say things, but, you know, is

that the right way to go? You
know, you see, you see big banks

and big organisations making all
sorts of blunders around wages

or around you know other things
that they're not doing with

respect to community standards,
etc. And you know, you're just

wondering whether it's people
being scared to be a

whistleblower or people being
scared to bring it up because

they're more concerned about
their career. So there's

enormous challenges for creating
an environment where people feel

comfortable enough to be able to
say what they need to say or to

be able to step away and look
after their own personal health.

It's a huge, huge issue, and you
know people like yourself with.

Tomorrow is not today. You know
you're the. You're right, you're

probably seeing this on a far
more regular basis than I am.

You know they. They need to
reach out to people like you and

listen to people like you. The
experiences that that you come

across to be able to navigate
through some really challenging

times.
I think one of the most powerful

things that's come through to me
at my age I'm in my mid sixties

now and one of the most powerful
things that's come through to me

is that people that stay in a
corporate environment all their

life have a very blinkered view
of the world.

They only see it from that
perspective and I think I think

there's, you know, there's a
really powerful thing that comes

out of that is you know about,
don't judge someone unless you

know the whole story, and I
think that I think a lot of

people in that who've only lived
in a corporate world and have

only paid mind to you know the
pay master, if you like. They

only view things from a, from a
blinkered, narrow perspective

and I and I, and it can be an
employee, it can be the middle

management, it can be executive,
and I think that introducing a

guest such as myself to that
environment can be powerful,

because I've been fortunate
enough to be able to work in a

corporate world and in a small
business world as an employer

and then as an in a small
business world as self employed,

so you get to see the full game,
but you get to see and

understand the challenges from
so many different perspectives.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very it's
a very good point that you make

about having a blinkered sort of
view on things, and that is in

particular if, like you said,
you've had all those different

three experiences but I not
everybody does and even with you

in small business, in a
particular industry or whatever,

it is very, very easy to see
things just from that angle.

And that's one reason I
encourage people as often

possible get out of your comfort
zone, go and travel, go and talk

to people. If you want to learn
how to market your business, go

to a business that's in a
completely different industry

and have a look what they do,
because it's amazing what you

can look at and go, wow, I would
never have thought of doing that

bringing it back and adopting
into your own business or your

own industry to market or to
reach people or build

relationship with people, and
just gets out of that head of

that narrow minded of how to go
about things. So I think that's

a brilliant point that you made.
No matter which scenario you're

in or you have been in, just
having a broader look at things

like that I think is fantastic.

Speaker 1: I was just going to
say, and what follows off the

back of that is don't assume
that everyone thinks the way

that you do. And I'm not saying
it particularly to you, but I'm

saying it to those people in,
whether it be my people in small

business or whether it be people
in a corporate world. Don't

assume that everyone thinks the
same way that you do. I had a

really interesting situation not
long ago where we were buying

pharmacies and someone heavily
involved on our team was quite

aggressive how we went about it
and assumed that every single

situation was going to end up in
a litigious situation because

there was going to be people
that would be doing the wrong

thing. Now, I believe that was
simply because he had a

litigious nature and at the end
of the day, he assumed that

everyone else would go down that
path. Now, not everyone's like

that. Not everyone's out to
screw the next person or vice

versa. It's you know, yeah,
you've got a guard against it,

but don't assume that everyone
will think the same way that you

do.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a
really good point, really good

point, especially when you put
it into those scenarios. You're

talking about how people think
around those lines as well, and

I think now people are starting
to change the way they approach

things in business to a large
degree not everybody, obviously,

but a lot of people are having,
I think, a more approach. Like

you do is like no, we don't need
to go down that track. There are

other ways to work things
through and come to agreements

and things like that as well.
And that's what I do like about

your approach to things Is it
can all work together for good

for everybody. We approach it
the right way, I love how you go

about things that way.
So now tell me, so you're coming

out of the high corporate, high
stress area and then you go from

Brisbane, from Sydney, in the
middle of Sydney, through to

Sunshine Coast surf shops. Now
that's not a little mindset

change, that is a big mind
change in there. Tell me, how

did you adjust to that, and was
it actually? It might seem like

a piece of cake. Of course
that's going to be easy, but not

necessarily when you've gone
down a path for so many years

and a certain lifestyle for so
many years when you completely

change it. How was it going down
that path?

Speaker 1: Oh, fantastic. I mean
I look at 18 years of suits and

ties and working in the middle
of the Sydney CBD. But I enjoyed

that, didn't bother me
whatsoever that I had to put a

certain tie on each morning and
head into work, that wasn't an

issue. And then owning surf
stores it was, you know, board

shorts, t-shirts and thongs on
the sunny coast it looked that

wasn't hard to take either, but
you've got to feel comfortable

and natural around those
environments.

What we, funnily enough, what we
found, was that surf stores

could be really clicky places.
You know we're only the cool

dudes and cool girls sort of
hung out, and we've gone up

there, as you know, in our mid,
late to mid 30s, mid to late 30s

with, you know, an eight year
old and a six year old, and

certainly wasn't a pro surfer,
though I could surf reasonably

well, but I wasn't, you know, a
gun surfer and you know we

weren't the coolest kids on the
block, that's for sure.

But what we recognized was that
there was a lot of people who

were inspired to the brands and
aspired to the lifestyle and

they were the ones that we
targeted as being, you know, our

clientele. Those people that
were, you know that, you know,

were a little bit dorky, didn't
spend much time in the water but

still happen but still were
comfortable. You know, still

wanted to buy a pair of Andy
Irons billabong board shorts,

you know, or a quick silver
t-shirt or, you know, a rip curl

backpack or whatever, because
they aspired to the lifestyle

and they were the ones that we
were very comfortable welcoming

into our store. And, you know,
the store just went ballistic

and went extremely well to the
point where we had to expand it

and then build a second.

Speaker 2: Yeah, which is
fantastic, especially coming the

way you did. Is that partly
because you embrace those people

that may not have necessarily
fit in with a traditional surf

store, surf culture type thing,
but you embrace them in because

I know up on the Sunshine Coast,
having lived there for a number

of years myself, it is very much
that sort of a lifestyle. You're

dressed up when you put a button
shirt on rather than the t-shirt

.

Speaker 1: And it's very
different.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a
different feel, it's a different

environment, and so not
everybody necessarily surf, but

they did like enjoying the beach
, they did enjoy the lifestyle,

layback lifestyle there, and so
part of what you did, by the

sounds of things, was embracing
those people who love being

there, even though they weren't
traditionally a surfy type

person.

Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah,
absolutely, you know it was

people up from Brisbane, people
up from Victoria and Melbourne

on holidays at Malula Bar. You
know they were up there to you

know, embrace the lifestyle, and
we were happy to be a part of

that journey with them.

Speaker 2: And so it didn't
sound like it took you too long

to embrace that lifestyle
yourself, get involved with

those, the people, the lifestyle
, I guess, the atmosphere, the

beach culture and that sort of
thing. For you, even though

you're a surfy, obviously the
beach was not foreign to you,

but for you and for your family
and your kids, you sort of

embraced it fairly quickly.

Speaker 1: We did early on. One
of the new new experiences for

us was to become buyers. So we
would be. You know you'd be

buying, you know next season's
product in advance on Indent

essentially. So you'd be buying,
you know, anywhere between three

and six months in advance and
you'd be doing it out of range

books and out of you know
samples and things like that.

And unfortunately, or
unfortunately very early on I

had to go to a women's range
showing because my wife wasn't

available. Traditionally. I, you
know, ok, I'll buy the men's,

she would buy the women's, and I
got sent very early on to a

women's buying one because she
just wasn't available at that

particular time. I came home
with a range book. I'd sat and

enjoyed watching a range to
young ladies in show me bikinis

and cut off denim shorts for
about two hours, came home with

a range book that had triple
ticks on every single item in

the book and I got banned from
doing rain showings after that.

Speaker 2: At least you got to
enjoy yourself. So, now you had

your surf stores. They grew.
That all happened. Now there's

obviously pressure with that
small business as well,

especially when it's growing.
You've got staff. How did you, I

guess, take the staff and work
with them to be able to get them

to work with you and your
culture as well? Because

obviously, if you had a hundred
people working for you at one

point, that's a lot of people, a
lot of people to look after.

What did you put in place for
yourself?

Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it was a
hundred people over the entire

time, or over a hundred people
over that entire time, but,

interestingly enough, my wife
was the employer, the recruiter,

if you like. One of the
questions that she would

regularly look for in someone
was whether or not they were and

these are young kids, these are
school-aged kids essentially.

For a lot of them, do you play
team sports? So we were looking

on a regular basis for young
folk that had a smile and some

personality and whether or not
they played some team sports. So

they understood that they were
coming in and that they were

going to be a part of the team.
And it was my wife, rosalinds,

and my role was to make sure
that they were set up with the

stock and with the processes to
be able to complete a sale.

Their role in the store, the
young people's role in the store

, in the stores, was to be able,
if you like, the signposts

within the store and they could
direct people to where they

needed to go. Everyone needed to
be greeted, everyone needed to

come in with a smile and
everyone needed to be introduced

and shown where to go within the
store, give them time and then

to help them through a process
of purchasing a product or

several products, etc. But our
role very much was to give them

what they needed to be able to
sell to or show a product. Our

role was to get people into the
store and to make sure that the

staff had what they needed to be
able to complete sales etc. So,

yeah, look, it sort of wasn't
rocket science. In that respect,

it was more. Well, you know, how
would you like to be treated?

You know a lot of guys don't
like to go shopping.

So, for example, one of the
things we were first, one of the

first stores to ever do it, one
of the we actually introduced a

big blokes corner and we had a
specific corner in the stores

where we went and put anything
that was double XL or larger,

you know, big, double XL, size
38, size 40s, all of that sort

of thing, triple XL's, whether
it be rash shirts, whether it be

t shirts, whether it be walk
shorts, whether it be board

shorts, we all put it into one
specific corner because and what

would happen?
The number of times that a woman

would come in and, you know, be
approached by one of the young

staff and I'm shopping for my
husband yeah, look, he's a big

guy and we could take them
directly to a range that was

specifically set aside and
designed for bigger guys. Or

we'd have a big guy come in who
was not a good shopper and we

could sort of lead him over and
say, well, look, hunt through

there, because that's where
you're going to find things that

suit you, et cetera. Now it was
just finding understanding that

the target market and what some
of their challenges were, and

facilitating something that
suited them, and it was an

incredibly successful part of
our stores was being able to do

something like that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think
that we definitely appreciate

that and I'm picking up that you
look for where people are at and

how can you help people, serve
people where they are at. And

what you mentioned before I
wanna hone in on a little bit

here is the fact that when you
were looking for your staff, you

weren't necessarily looking for
top grades or the best skills or

anything like that. You wanted
someone with a personality and a

new who to work with other
people. I think that's really,

really interesting, because
obviously you can teach skills,

but the fact that you wanted a
personality, a smile and someone

who knew to work with people to
me is very interesting. Is that

something you learned earlier on
from your commercial days, or

how did you come across that and
understand that in regards to

working with people?

Speaker 1: Look, it's a little
bit of. We had some. I can

remember a particularly young
lady who came in and who worked

for us and very shy but she was.
When you got to know she was

engaging and she had a lovely
smile and it was just about

nurturing her and bringing out
the skillset or the personality

in her so that she had the
confidence to be able to

approach customers. And I can
remember she was in the store

with one of our more experienced
employees and someone came in

and they said well, go on off.
You go go and talk to this new

customer, go and greet them and
say hello and she's going.

Speaker 2: No, I don't want to.
I don't know what to say.

Speaker 1: And she said, well,
just go over there, give her a

smile and say hi and welcome to
the store and started off that

way. And to see the confidence
grow in these young people as

they went through that little
journey and they went through

that process, and it's something
that Rose and I reflect on. It

was we still our friends, was
this particular person on

Facebook and we to see those
sort of things and where she's

gone on to, and to know that you
were a part of helping that

young person on that early
journey, it's an incredibly

rewarding thing. So my very
first experience, funnily enough

, was working at David Jones in
the Market Street store in

Sydney in the men's suiting area
, while I was still at school.

You're placed in a situation and
it's a bit again facing fears,

isn't it? It's about being
putting to positions that you're

not comfortable with and rising
to meet that challenge. And this

young lady did it. And back in
the day, I did it because, at

the end of the day, if you had
to do it or you didn't have a

job, so it's what you do.

Speaker 2: And it's such an
important thing to do that, and

if I think, if people can take
that away from this, as well as

a whole bunch of good things
that you've mentioned but to

step out of your comfort zone,
if you are in a place where

you're looking about, do I keep
my career going? Things are

going well, but it's not
aligning with who I am. I want

to express myself a bit more,
spread my wings. I've got other

desires, things I want to do.
Maybe put a bit of a plan in

place, have a chat with some
people, but as sooner or later

you're gonna have to bite the
bullet and do it, and there's no

greater feeling than doing
something that you fear and

overcoming that and being in
that place, moving out in that

direction and, on top of that,
what you just said about

learning to work with other
people, learning to just be bold

in front of people, understand
people, putting them in the

right place, like if a big
person comes in. Here's a

section for you. We understand
how you might be feeling. Here's

a great place. We've made this
comfortable for you.

I think that's incredibly
powerful. It's almost an

oxymoron. You're making things
comfortable for people but at

the same time, we need to get
out of our own comfort zone. So

to me it's get out of your own
comfort zone. But what can you

do to make other people feel
comfortable, wanted, I guess,

loved, and in a place where
people do want them there? That

might seem almost a bit of a
stretch from what's coming, but

that's what I'm getting out of
what you're saying at the moment

.

Speaker 1: Look, it absolutely
is. There were reasons. At the

end of the day, we end up
selling those businesses and

there were reasons why we had to
, needed to, went down that path

. But we eventually sold those
businesses. But what it had done

was it fueled a passion in me
around helping small business

owners because I understand I've
been down that journey.

I've taken a lot of scars and a
lot of challenges that have come

through that and I understand
how time and capital poor small

business owners can be. It's why
I went on to create my pharmacy

appraisal. It's why I went on to
create Six-Fu Class. These are

ways they're platforms, if you
like that I've created that have

taken all of those corporate
banking and all those corporate

experiences and then later on,
all of my experiences in the

pharmacy industry on to a point
where I'm constantly looking at

ways that I can add on to those
platforms so that small business

owners you don't need to
subscribe. There's an awful lot

of information on those things
that you can get out of that can

help small business owners. So I
call it a strategy page, a

strategy and business
improvement page on my pharmacy

appraisal, and essentially it's
all about a resource to help

small business owners on their
journey.

Speaker 2: So tell us a little
bit more about what you are

doing now. We're coming to the
close. We've got to wrap up,

unfortunately, because time-wise
, but tell us a little bit about

what you're doing now and how it
is helping people, I guess,

expand a little bit on what you
were just saying there.

Speaker 1: Yeah, look, the
principle platform is my

pharmacy appraisal. After I sold
my business, I spent 12 years in

the pharmacy industry and
essentially what that was was

doing valuations, looking at the
values of pharmacies, buying and

selling pharmacies, etc. So I
got to look at a lot of P&Ls. I

got to look at a lot of
pharmacies physically I got to

look at, got to learn to really
break down and understand the

drivers behind a community
pharmacy. And my pharmacy

appraisal has taken all of that
that analytical skills of my

banking days, the small business
skills where I was a retailer,

and then those 10, 12 years
looking at pharmacies. So it's

about pouring the first two into
the third, if you like, and then

creating my pharmacy appraisal
so that there's a demographic

mapping tool on there. There's a
SWOT analysis on there. There's

business plans on there. There's
an appraisal platform on there.

There's a strategy and business
improvement platform part of it

on there as well.
So it's all a resource center

for pharmacists that they can
subscribe to. They can undertake

an appraisal of their pharmacy
they can then sell. It creates

an executive summary. They can
sell their pharmacy if they wish

to. They can look for a business
partner or a junior partner to

come in, they can use it as a
landing spot to undertake a

strategic review of their
pharmacy. They might want to go

in and have a really good look
and understand what the

demographics around their
particular pharmacy is and

whether or not they've got the
right branding for their

pharmacy. So that's a real Very
in-depth.

Chest. Yeah, it's a chest of
opportunities for someone to

dive into and have a really good
look, and so people just

subscribe to it. Most people
subscribe to the mapping tool,

which is a partnership that I've
got with a business called

GeoTech Information Services,
and they've. That was something

that we put together when I was
at Ramsey Healthcare and it was

a brilliant platform that would
be too expensive for a community

pharmacist to get to access, but
what we've done is that we've

made it accessible to a small
business owner, to be honest,

for $250 plus GST, so it's a
really great resource Around

mapping all the drivers that
they can use within their small

business, their community
pharmacy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, which is, those
tools can be invaluable

sometimes If you pick them up
and actually apply them. It's

one thing to get it and have a
look at it, but when you apply

them it makes a massive, massive
difference, and that's something

that not just for pharmacy
people, that's for any small

business that would be helpful
for.

Speaker 1: Oh, you've absolutely
nailed it. People sign up to it

and then don't spend time
hunting and gathering on it.

There is so much information on
there, whether they're looking

to acquire another pharmacy,
whether they're looking to buy

their first pharmacy, or whether
they're looking to take their

particular pharmacy and
understand where they can use

this particular tool for further
business development, further

understandings of their pharmacy
. And, for example, we did the

census in 2021. So all of the
data from census 2021 is now

being overlaid into all of this
mapping tool as well. So it's a

brilliant tool. But you're right
, you've got to get on there and

use it and it would work for
pretty well most retail

environments, most retail
situations.

Speaker 2: Okay, awesome. So,
todd, as we come to an end, two

more things, but I need to ask
you a couple of questions. We

always talk here about creating
your ultimate tomorrow, so tell

me what is your ultimate
tomorrow?

Speaker 1: I think my ultimate
tomorrow for me is time with my

wife, my children and my
grandchildren. I'm up here in

Queensland on the Sunshine Coast
. Time with them, time with as

much time as I can spend with
them. Last Friday I was at my

granddaughter's swimming lessons
and she, after the swimming

lessons, we went with my
daughter and the grandson, who's

only six months old. We went to
her she's two and a half and we

went to the local cafe. They've
got a grassy area there and she

wanted to take her shoes and
socks off and her mother told

her that she wasn't allowed to
do that. That's my daughter. She

wasn't allowed to do it and so I
joined her and I took my shoes

and socks off. So she felt that
she had a partner in crime. So

she took her shoes and socks off
and she was. You know, we got

naughty together.
And we went and showed my

daughter, and my daughter took a
photo of it and sent it on to my

wife. But you know, my
granddaughter two and a half

loved it that Papa had been
naughty with her and took his

shoes and socks off. And hey,
that's my ultimate tomorrow.

Speaker 2: That's awesome, so
tell me, how do you go about

creating your ultimate tomorrow?

Speaker 1: Um, courage,
resilience, humility, back

yourself, speak, step out, as
you've you've pointed out. Face

your fears, step outside your
comfort zone. Um, you know, have

a listen to tomorrow is not
today podcast, because it's full

of great tips and hints, hints.
Um, you know it's, it's that's

what you've got to do. You've
got to be able to, um, you've

you know, you've got to have
courage of your conviction. Have

the resilience back yourself, uh
, and seek, seek some guidance.

Um, because we don't know at all
. There's too many people who

think they're the smut. Well,
they don't, probably don't think

it, but they come across as
smartest person in the room.

Don't be that smartest person in
the room. Listen to other people

, uh, listen to those
experiences, because they're

invaluable.

Speaker 2: It's interesting you
say all those things and they

they seem like the hard things
to do until you actually do them

and then you realize it's not
actually that hard but the

growth and the learning and the
wisdom you gain out of it is is

absolutely huge. So, todd,
anyone who wants to catch up

with you. They may have a small
business, they may have a

pharmacy, they may be looking at
buying a pharmacy or a small

business or something like that.
What's the best way for people

to get in touch with you?

Speaker 1: Look through my
pharmacy appraisalcomau. All of

my contact details are on that
platform.

Speaker 2: Okay, Fantastic. So
for people just to reach out

email, just jump on the on the
internet.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. Email or
telephone. Yep, they're all.

Both my phone and my email are
on there. So, by all means,

reach out Um, happy to travel,
happy to talk, happy to email Um

, you know, um, I'm ready to to
assist where. I can.

Speaker 2: Awesome. Todd, thank
you so much for joining us on

the Tomorrow's, not Today
podcast. I know we've hit things

from a little bit of a different
angle today and I'm really

excited about that because I
think it's something that a lot

of people go through their minds
and they talk about and think

about. But it's not easy making
a massive decision and a massive

change like that. So hopefully,
um, you know, we we spurred on

some people to to, um, I guess,
take their life back into their

hands, which is what you have
done. You decided on the road

heading up to uh, up to Sydney
from home that morning, and

hopefully other people can do
that Again. Some people they

love the corporate life and
that's fantastic Go at it and go

hard. But for people who think,
hey, maybe it's time for a

change, um, like Todd said, have
the guts, have the courage, step

out of what might be comfortable
and create the life that you

want. Thank you so much, todd,
for joining us. I really

appreciate it.

Speaker 1: Oh look, it's been
awesome. Uh, kingsley, um

fantastic doing this with you.
Really appreciated the

opportunity. It is, mate, thank
you.

Speaker 2: Create the life you
want.