Tomorrow is Not Today

Kingsley Colley (00:01.503)
Welcome to the Tomorrow Is Not Today podcast. Today, you definitely want to keep watching or listening, however you're doing this at the moment. I've got a guest on who is doing something that hasn't been done in Australia before, talking about a topic that's very, very personal to him for a very, very good reason. And it's something that we were just chatting before we got on. It's something that is either we think we know something about it.

or else we have completely the wrong ideas about it. And so I know there's a massive, massive amount of people who deal with this. So buckle up. Might want a few tissues along the way as well, but I'm excited. Mark, thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today.

Mark Forbes (00:48.12)
Kingsley, it's my pleasure and thanks for the invite.

Kingsley Colley (00:51.093)
So Mark, initially, first off, let's tell people a little bit about who you are and what you're actually doing to help people.

Mark Forbes (00:57.816)
Thank you. Yes. My wife and I started our charity and did over 10 years ago now. And we saw that Australia did not have a residential for eating disorders.

We'll get into this later, but we've actually staged it. Stage one was to create and build Australia's first residential for eating disorders, which we did a number of years ago. Butterfly Foundation now operated. Stage two was to create a step up, step down day program center, which we have done and established that years ago. Stage three was to provide a short term accommodation village. So people wanting support, needing support from our day program center can actually

stay somewhere very economically and then access our day program which is directly across the road from the village. as of April 1st all those three stages are complete so it's probably a world first really not just an Australian first in the model that we've created. So we're very proud and excited about it.

Kingsley Colley (02:00.765)
And later on, we're going to put in the show note links and things like that where people can go and actually see what you've done. I guess this come to my attention through a friend of mine and I had preconceived ideas on what these eating disorders and things were all about and how they worked. And I just couldn't understand why people couldn't get through it. And that was my pure naivety until you actually speak with somebody who's dealt with it.

and they can explain things that sort of just don't type, kind of make sense to a person who's not dealt with it. And I guess part of this podcast today is I want people to understand a little bit better that we've to get out of ourselves and our own preconceived ideas and into what reality is for a whole bunch of people who you are helping in absolutely incredible ways. can you, let's dive into why you're actually doing this in the first place.

Mark Forbes (03:00.578)
Yes, it takes us back through our own personal journey with two of our daughters. My wife and I have five children between us. had four children from my first marriage. My wife had one from her first. And my eldest developed an eating disorder at the age of 16. And back way back then, she's now 46. So way back then, I had no concept of what this was, you know, was it a teenage journey that most young women

and go on, it was beyond me. And I tried to find help, but there was back then there was very little available at all. So we journeyed as best we could. Unfortunately, somebody with a long term eating disorder generally brings in something else to help them cope. And with our eldest, was she.

turned towards alcohol to help her through her journey. Our youngest from my wife's first marriage, she was five when she came into my life. She's now 32, but she developed an eating disorder at 14. So they weren't related, but it was the universe the second time around. thought, well, is the universe, you know, give me a kick up the ass and just saying, go and do something about this, you know, instead of scratching your head and talking about it. So, and unfortunately,

youngest to cope with the voices as she turned to meth. So it's been a hell of a journey all around from a lot of areas but they have been the drivers for us to make change. That's for sure.

Kingsley Colley (04:43.885)
Tell me a little bit about...because obviously there's like lots of ideas as to where it comes from and why it's there and that sort of thing. With all of the work that you're doing and the professionals which we'll get into later on that you have around your life, your organisation right now, can you enlighten us a little bit about where the need for this comes from, for lack of a better word?

Mark Forbes (05:09.646)
Yeah, look, it is genetic based. It falls into the...

spectrum of autism. And unfortunately, we had our how we found out about this yet we had our youngest tested by GP in Brisbane, a long time ago, and she proved positive to an MTHFR gene, which predisposes you to an eating disorder, or disordered eating. And it does that because it stops. If you've got

that gene structure, then the food you eat, your body doesn't automatically process the folate from the food. And the folate is the serotonin release feel good in your stomach. So they were missing out, they're missing out on that feel good from the stomach, which is your second brain. So then you could you can artificially stimulate that. But the trick is if if you have an eating disorder, especially

especially bulimia, you can take that supplement but then you're bringing it back up again. So it was one thing to know how that happened, it was another thing to try and work around that. But we've been recently, over the last number of years, we've been working with the North Carolina University. They started a world first study on the genetic makeup of an eating disorder.

and they identified eight other genomes that

Mark Forbes (06:51.692)
that work together to create this issue. And then the Berghoff University just last year in conjunction with North Carolina University and us and other organisations like us in Australia, they're now taking that to the next level. So when that's finished, the world will have a complete genome structure on what it is and how we can best handle it and work with it. So it's an interesting journey.

so when, when parents and carers ring me or any of our team and they initially start by going, I don't know where to start with my story because I just feel like I've let my kids down. there's a lot of shame and guilt there, you know, and I just, I don't know what I automatically go, look, I'll just stop you there. I'll tell you a little bit about our journey. And I'll also tell you that it's fair chance you've got, you're dealing with a genetic structure here.

that was out of your control. if you think back in your family, auntie or your grandma or uncle, and nine times out of 10, someone will go, oh, actually, now you mentioned that I do know, grandma had had a problem with food or, or had a problem with anxiety, high anxiety, depression. Then you can say, well, stop beating yourself up then take that light off your shoulders. It was sitting there. And it was something that triggered it. And that's something can't

Divorce is a stressful thing for a young family. Divorce can trigger that structure into play, it can be, it sounds simple to us, but it's not to a young person bullying at school. keep being bullied. Because generally, there's two sorts of make-ups, isn't there? There's somebody who starts to get bullied and go, listen, you're not bothering me. This doesn't impact

impact me, just leave it at that. Or it's the other person who goes, who takes it on board and doesn't say anything and takes it on board and that swells inside them and just grows larger and larger until and they feel their world's slipping out of control. The one thing they can control is the intake of food and their body. So that's where it starts. And it's a very slippery slope.

Kingsley Colley (09:18.348)
So it's, that one's really interesting because I hadn't heard it put like that before. And I'm learning a lot about this at the moment myself, which I'm glad I am. It sounds like, correct me if this isn't the wrong interpretation, but it sounds like some people have like a genome or something that's sitting pretty much dormant that can actually be activated through some type of trauma or something. Am I catching this right?

Mark Forbes (09:46.156)
Yeah, look, there's an old saying in the field we work in and it is genetics load the gun and it's the social that pulls the trigger. Yeah, so it can be lying dormant and something will trigger it into gear. Yeah, one of the poems that this young lady sent me that we had worked with years ago, she sent me this poem and unfortunately I've lost it on email was a long time ago, but the guts of the

is she was driving along in the car one day, beautiful sunny day. There's a good looking guy on the street trying to hit you right. So she backs up and goes, yeah, jump in the back seat. And so the guy's in the back seat, they're chatting and she's going, well, I really liked this guy. He gets me. But before I know it, he's sitting in the front seat with me and we go, oh, I don't know how that happened. But anyway, you're probably the best friend I've got.

such a short period of time, because you totally understand me, you get me, I don't have to explain anything. And then next minute, he's in the driver's seat, and she's in the passenger seat. And then on it goes until she's in the backseat, he's driving this bus, and she has lost control. So then he is turned from this wonderful friend boyfriend into somebody that's trying to end her life trying to divide her from the rest of the family.

take over her life because that's what an eating disorder wants to do is divide and conquer and that's where a lot of families have problems and Because normally, you know a husband a male and female handle Issues differently that's a natural way to do it The eating disorder is a very smart piece of gear and it can work that out and it can play on that Because it just wants the eating disorder just wants that person and that's it

Kingsley Colley (11:45.027)
A couple of things he said there is that parents often feel a lot of guilt and shame around this. And also they're trying to know what to do, how to handle it. can you, and I know I'm asking a lot here, can you take me back to what, when you first found out about this, what was going through your mind, your thoughts? Because a lot of people think,

Like you said, what have I done? How's it, you know, what could I have done better? Whatever it is. Take me back to where you found out what was going on, how it affected you personally, your relationship with your wife, your relationship with kids, how that all developed and evolved.

Mark Forbes (12:37.39)
Yeah, because we've, I've had two sort of journeys with it. Um, the hardest, well, it's hard to say which one was the hardest actually, because the second time around, I knew a lot more. Um, but unfortunately it didn't really help us the situation either. It sort of had to play out in a way. Um, but certainly the first time around, as I said earlier, it was a long time ago now. Um, and there was no information about it whatsoever. Uh, so, you know, we,

sussed out what we could. We were living in Brisbane at the time and found a couple of places and it was really confronting to go to this one particular house and it was just young ladies coming and going who you could tell were struggling and parents who were just so emotionally involved and upset and yeah, a very lonely, lonely journey.

But you know, our eldest through that, she has learned to manage it on a daily basis. When you have it for that period of time, you end up.

you end up managing it and that's probably the best outcome you can have. She's got her life back together and she actually works in the space now as well, helping others, which is fantastic to see that, yeah, that circle complete. We're still working with our youngest to, for that to be achieved. We're raising actually our youngest daughter, she's eight. We've been raising her

Kingsley Colley (14:01.101)
Wow. Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Forbes (14:18.554)
since she was eight months because our daughter's unfortunately trying to fix her own journey because you've got to fix yourself. It's like anything like this. You've got to fix yourself before you can help anyone else. And you've got to put yourself first in that situation and concentrate wholly and solely on yourself until you can get to a point where you can manage other things. So it's a very, it's a very long process.

That's been the journey with us in our life, but because of...

All the other people, our team supports, we now see a lot quicker results. it really depends on the age that you're getting it at, you're capturing it at, and then how long they've had it for. Because the quicker you can nip it in the bud, obviously the better. but there is really a quick fix. It is a road. It's a hard road. and that's what's driven us to, to create the change.

in the landscape.

Kingsley Colley (15:25.699)
So people who deal with this, what are they thinking? Because it's okay for, you know, someone like me to sit here and go, why don't you just eat? That's, you know what I mean? But that's obviously completely irrelevant to the whole situation. What's going through their minds and their emotions, the thoughts of themselves, or at the outside, et cetera?

Mark Forbes (15:42.146)
What? Yeah.

Mark Forbes (15:49.452)
Yeah, you know, I've heard it described as somebody who's horrified with spiders.

It's like walking in for them to walk into a room full of spiders is the worst nightmare they can have. who the spider is actually food. So somebody who can walk into that room and see this, it triggers everything and it's, it's the worst nightmare. And I remember with, you know, quite often when our youngest was living with us around the dinner table. If she was sitting next to me, she would go, I can't believe you can't hear these

voices in my head because they are screaming at me that loud and yet you're sitting there and you can't hear them. Makes no sense to me.

And, it was hard then for you sort of start to grasp how difficult this journey is because those voices for them at 20 every waking moment. and therefore sleep becomes difficult and they medicate to try and sleep. And then it becomes this revolving spiral. It's just, yeah, gets out of control. But when, when you understand that these voices are that loud to them, you can understand why they want to try and shut them down. Cause how do you live?

that.

Mark Forbes (17:06.382)
We all have those voices to some degree, but in the general life, they're pretty minor. for these people, it takes over their life and it is their life. And I suppose that's back to how we named our charity and Ed. And lot of people go, it's NDD, N-D-D-I-N disorders. That's not how it started. When we had our youngest two psychologists down in Brisbane, a long time ago, she drew a big stick figure on the board and a little one on the inside.

and said to our daughter, which one are you? She said, well, I'm the big one. The eating disorder is inside here. No, it's the other way around. Eating disorder is the big one. You're inside here. And, mum and dad, we've got to work to turn this around. So your daughter is the big figure and the eating disorder is still there, but we can manage. And, you know, the psychologist then said to us, do you notice the difference when...

this big figures here present and you go, yeah, totally. It's like an exorcism. The face changes, the eyes change, the actual jaw line changes, it just forward. sounds bizarre, but it's a total possession when there's big things in charge.

And your child's not there. And throughout that journey, you see less and less of that flash of there's your child. The eating disorder becomes larger and more consistent. So getting back to that, psychologist said, well, let's give this big fella a name. Let's call him Ed. So we want to try and diminish Ed or end Ed. And we come home and we're, well, we're just starting this charity. Let's try and end this big fella, you know?

That's how the charity name come about. And it's just by chance, people go, and DD and eating disorders as well. I suppose it works both ways. But yeah, that's how that started. So it made it extremely real for us because you can then identify this huge figure that's taken over your child.

Kingsley Colley (19:07.716)
Mmm.

Mark Forbes (19:15.594)
And you know, I would hear pots and pans rattling at midnight and I'd get up to try and challenge what's going on or sit with or understand what's going on. Or then, you know, again, you'd all settle down to bed again and three o'clock in the morning, pots and pans are rattling again and the lights are on and cooking's happening.

But you know straight away whether you're actually wasting your time talking or not, because I'd go down into the kitchen and the response I would get or the visual I would get from my child, I go, my God, okay, I'll just have to back out of this because I'm wasting my time and nothing is being absorbed here. So it's a hard one.

Kingsley Colley (20:00.797)
As a dad, you see your kids doing that. What goes through your head at the time? Like how do you deal with, because all you want to do is rescue and save as a dad. That's all you want to do and protect. How do you, what's going through your head? How do you deal with that?

Mark Forbes (20:14.241)
Yeah.

Mark Forbes (20:18.2)
bloody helpless. That's how you feel as a father. You feel like you've failed him. You got me going now. But you just feel helpless, you know. Because as a male, you want to jump in and fix things. But I learnt the first time around, you have to bury that male, let's get in there and fix it attitude because you can't. You can't fix it like that.

We tried everything with our daughter when she was there. She even come up with the idea. She said, well, how about you padlock the fridge? How about we have dinner and I'll let you know when I've had enough to eat for the night before I go to bed. And how about then you padlock the fridge and change the pantry? Okay. Your idea. Let's try that. And we did. And it worked for a week, maybe two.

But then I heard this commotion one night, down and up, it's broken into it. So we stopped that experiment. And yeah, you come at, you just tear your hair out.

You just feel so helpless as a parent. You really do. It's a terrible situation. And it's a terrible situation to see this bloody big monster Ed just continually divide and conquer and take over your child's life. Yeah, it's a terrible position. And that's I think our charity is so unique because we are lived experiences as parents and carers.

now with our granddaughter as well and that's been the driver for our charity. All our staff, we employ seven young ladies.

Mark Forbes (22:11.438)
Who are all lived experience? We don't employ anybody that's not lived experience. That's the prime tick to get in the door. But you know, our ladies are also psychologists, recovery coaches, dieticians, counsellors in their own right and nurses as well. So they have that professional side to them. But when they meet someone at our charity,

Kingsley Colley (22:13.912)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (22:37.42)
They just go, I know where you're at. You don't have to explain yourself. Let's just work together to understand the best way to help you move forward. That lived experience is the key. And that's what we've always based ourselves on.

Kingsley Colley (22:52.516)
I think without that lived experience, you're not going to have a clue what's going on really. You can't.

Mark Forbes (22:57.699)
You won't have the empathy to start with or the understanding. You have to live it.

And you know, it does divide and conquer these sort of divides and conquer your own friendship groups and your own families as, as adults, because a lot of friends don't want to keep hearing about it. let's go, Oh my God, you can't be serious. It's not still going on, is it? haven't, have you thought about the worst thing? The worst one is when someone goes, have you thought about this? If you go, Oh, wow. Do you think I've been through this journey?

a long time now. Do you think you're going to come up with a solution for me? I just need you to stand with me. you won't understand it unless you journey it, but just stand with me and support me. That's all you want. even family, they get rightly so tired of hearing about it too, because they don't understand it. They don't personally journey it. They see the impact that

on you. But yeah, it becomes you do form your own, you form your own family through this journey, you know, because the people that come your way adults or, or carers who come your way, you quickly gain a friend, a long term friendship, because you're taking away the barriers that are normally there when you meet somebody, when you meet somebody, you know, you've got one arm behind your back and you're

not showing your full self generally. And you've got to go, you have to sort people out and try and suss what they're really like. When you meet someone who's been on this journey and unfortunately have lost their child or journeying with their child, all those barriers are gone. They meet you face to face where they're at, where we're at. So you quickly create your own friendships and families through this journey. So there is that upside to it. Yeah, it's neat.

Kingsley Colley (24:36.825)
Mm.

Mark Forbes (25:05.104)
interesting journey.

Kingsley Colley (25:06.041)
You would need that though because like it is a very

Like we talked to a lot of people who've gone through different traumas and griefs and different things like that on this podcast, but this, this sounds like it's something unique in and of itself that is very different to anything else that I can see. You would probably be the best person to talk about that, but that's from talking to a whole bunch of people and dealing with a whole bunch of people. That's, this sounds like very unique in how it's made up and how it affects people.

Mark Forbes (25:37.681)
totally, because it's not just... It's not... Because it impacts the whole family, I think that's the hardest thing.

Because then too, see families with other young children. And we see this quite often where the siblings start to rebel because they're going, hold on, the focus is all on my sister or my son, you know, my brother. There's no focus on me. So you sometimes see them then acting out another behavior to try and get the attention. Now they're not doing it probably on purpose, but

They're seeing that that's what it takes to get the parents attention and focus and in their eyes the love and care. Whereas a parent and care, your love and care, care for them just as much but they don't see it that way. So then unfortunately they quite often act out their own journey. That's why it's so impactful because no one can escape this bloody thing. It's a beast. It really is a beast.

Kingsley Colley (26:47.333)
Can you sort of define a little bit the different, because there's different eating disorders. Can you define the difference in how they work?

Mark Forbes (26:58.414)
Yeah, obviously, um, we caught it. We, sort of, I suppose, put a cover over the whole thing and call it disorders, disordered eating, but sure. There's anorexia. Um, and, know, I've seen, I've seen young girls who are frightened to sit beside somebody drinking water because they're, this is the mindset that comes about because they're thinking that.

They're going to gain the molecules are going to come out of her skin land on mine and I'm going to absorb this. that's how powerful this mindset can be. so when you understand that too, this is not something that they're acting out or putting on. is their belief sets that have the even sort of as where it's taken them to. And we noticed this in the, we see this in school playgrounds because we get teachers coming to our organisation, two of LA.

We just had a local school here earlier this week to talk to grades five, six and sevens because there's problems in the school grounds. Because if somebody is sitting in a group eating lunch like we used to, which was great fun, they'd be stealing someone's food or pinches and punches going on here and there. But a lot happens in the school ground now is isolation because that person doesn't want this person to see either how much they're

Kingsley Colley (28:18.661)
Thank

Mark Forbes (28:28.144)
eating or not eating at all. So they'll take themselves away and either eat or not eat. And the isolation just keeps growing. So there's the anorexia side of it, obviously. And that's the one that most people can relate to or will relate to because they see an obviously undernourished body and go, eating disorder. But with bulimia, which is

been the role for two of our daughters, one of them has floated in and out of a lot of different disorder behaviour patterns. with bulimia, you could not necessarily pick it. They, you know, if you said, this, this person has got an eating disorder, go, well, she looks healthy, or he looks healthy, and everything's fine. But bulimia is different. Because it's about it's about

if they're sitting in front of a big plate of food and the eating disorder is in charge.

It's like step out of the way because it is a frenzy. There's no other way to describe it. but then unfortunately, 20 minutes later it's gone. and then we're looking for food again. So, and the problems arise with that is because the foods in and out, the organs aren't, aren't working, aren't needed. So they start to fail. and because it's coming back out with stomach acid,

it affects the gums. You got dental problems. One thing with anorexia too that you often notice is because with anorexia, it's a very skeletal form. And you know, when our youngest was going through that part of it as well, she would

Mark Forbes (30:27.562)
she would put something skimpy on, for instance, and not know that people would necessarily look at sideways at her because she couldn't see what we could see her eyes. She used to describe it to us like, you know, the wall of mirrors in the exhibition, you'd go in and you could appear short.

dumpy or tall and very skinny or whatever. She said, that's the only way I can tell you that what I see in the mirror is not what you see. What I see, even though you could count a ribs, she got what I can see is fat. And

it's, it's again, hard to get your head around that that what is happening at the pupil is transferring differently to the brain than what it would for us. So yeah, and, then with with anorexia, there's, because the body core temperature starts to shut down, because the body fat isn't there. So the core temperature gets colder. The body starts to and this is nature.

and it's starts to grow fine hair to crop, try and create some warmth to that skin because the core temperature is dropping. because you haven't got the food intake and therefore you haven't got that furnace burning in your stomach. That's processing food and getting the blood flowing and the temperature where it should be. So it's extremely complex. and there's all in between.

There's all sorts of in-between all that purging and just chewing food, know, biting a bit of food and just chewing it into little balls and then spitting it out. And there's so many different variances to it. It's complex.

Kingsley Colley (32:26.714)
That's incredibly complex. And the way that it tricks the mind and the eyes and the whole lot of that is just listening to it. It's quite unbelievable how it actually works and how it affects somebody. And that's just hearing the story. That's not living with it. The actual living with it for the person must be hell every day.

Mark Forbes (32:52.718)
Yeah, totally. Yeah, living with that and seeing that, you know, some mornings my wife would, our daughter's bedroom door would be shut and our wife would go, look, this morning I can't open that door. I just haven't got it. I just don't feel I can handle what I'll find.

Can you open the door? we'd take sort of sounds strange, but we'd take turns at that because you'd never know what to expect. Whether it's the raging eating disorder or...

Her heart could stop during the night. you know, that's a common thing too, because a malnourished, the heart is obviously a muscle and a malnourished muscle starts to shrink and the heart's no different. So when it's malnourished, shrinks. So it's got to be to help a lot faster and more times to keep up. And you know, a normal test, a test that can be done is if someone's lying down and they get the, um, get the blood pressure and the heart

right done and I immediately stand up and do it again and the difference that because the heart is malnourished and smaller than it should be and it's beating a lot faster just that lying down standing up the difference in there is frightening what can happen and unfortunately we've now found these who have lost their loved ones during the night because simply the heart is stopped

Kingsley Colley (34:30.651)
So is that pretty much like, unfortunately for ones who do pass, is that pretty much what happens is the organs, the heart or other organs, I guess, stop working pretty much?

Mark Forbes (34:45.698)
Sorry Kingsley, you just broke up on that one.

Kingsley Colley (34:47.751)
Is that where what pretty much happens for those who unfortunately do actually pass? Is it pretty much their heart or other organs pretty much, I guess, not functioning anymore?

Mark Forbes (35:02.094)
Yeah, look, generally, then the heart is the biggest issue. Generally, that that's the problem. But in saying that to we're working with families, one in particular at the moment, unfortunately, suicide is a big is a big factor in this. Because there's a lot of fact, there's a lot of reasons why but if

someone who's had an eating disorder for any length of the given period of time in their minds, they've tried everything to, beat this thing. And sometimes it seems bigger than bigger than Ben who, you know, but one of the things, one of the things too, happens is

And it's happened recently in one particular hospital, which I won't name, but there's been three young ladies who have committed suicide with their eating disorders over the last couple of years from this one.

hospital. And unfortunately, the parents and carers were cut out of the equation. Because what happened in this particular case, in this particular case has been on current affair and this is the parents we are working with now. And they're crying for change that they don't want their daughter's death to be in vain. So they're being a voice for change. But some time back, their daughter had been in and out of this hospital.

And one visit, the senior staff at the hospital said, think the best treatment for your daughter is to put her on an ITO, involuntary treatment order.

Mark Forbes (36:50.07)
Now for these, this couple, it really wasn't explained to them what that really meant. They just explained it like, is the best medical pathway forward for your child is to go on an ITO. And of course, as a parent, go, well, we've tried a lot of other things. If you're saying that this is the best way forward, okay, we'll sign it. So they signed it. Not knowing that they just gave away their rights to care for their child.

So the child then is in the hospital system and that this child in particular was in there for nine months and the parents would come and go and go I know my child well enough to know she is slipping backwards here let us take her home and work. No, you've signed the ITO she's under our care so unfortunately

sad as it is, the hospital did release their daughter back to them, but she'd been on that many medications. And the parents said to the staff, look, okay, great, you're going to release it, but can you wean her off some of the medications before you do? But they said, no, she's coming home. she got home.

And a few days later, she said to her parents, I'm just going to meet one of my friend up the road. And unfortunately, she walked back to this hospital and got within a few hundred meters of it and threw a rope up over the tree and hung himself. Basically saying, take that. And her brother found her and

had to cut it down and there was a note for us just to sign. You need to be the voice here for change for me.

Kingsley Colley (38:39.417)
jeez.

Mark Forbes (38:46.272)
And so this couple, very, very strong couple and strong family, we've got to know them pretty quickly. Like I said before, you get to know people pretty quickly when this happens and they're in this world. We're working together to bring change about. And I know this couple went and saw the premier just last week, David Crucifili about it. where there's a rule in play called the Gilead competency rule.

Kingsley Colley (38:55.805)
Mmm.

Mark Forbes (39:16.176)
And what happens there is if it's a rule that came out of England in the late nineties and it was around disability, but it's been used as a blanket policy across the world. Um, it's not unique to Australia, but under this Gilead competency rule, look, it's a great rule. Don't get me wrong, but it's the misuse of it that causes the problem, which is what we're never going to overturn the Gilead rule nor do we want to, but we want to put some

barriers and guard rails along with it. Because a person with an eating disorder generally is high IQ, very well researched on the matter, can talk to it better than I can. And therefore when they get in front of a professional, a professional can go well, I deem you competent to make your own decisions for your treatment moving forward. And if you're telling me you don't want your parents in care,

is involved and I deem you competent, then we don't have to involve your parents and carers.

So the thing that we are saying there is, okay, that's operating under that rule, which is fine. That's legal. But you've this, our loved one's just been diagnosed with a mental health disorder. So therefore you're treating her as being able to make a competent decision about her future when the eating disorders in charge and talking to you and, and, and my loved one's got a

Kingsley Colley (40:22.824)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (40:52.624)
health disorder. So we're saying that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Because you talk to parents and carers. Look, there are some situations sure where it is harmful for that person to be at home. But in 90 95 % of the cases, the parents and carers and families know their loved one better than anyone, of course. And they are important part of the treatment process, they need to be included. So that's

Kingsley Colley (40:56.968)
you

Mark Forbes (41:22.594)
the change we're taking to the Queensland government. And that's a change that this couple and quite a few others, we're working together to bring about some change where the default position on this is parents and carers and family. That's the default position. Until you can prove otherwise that it's that it's harmful to have them included. Yeah, so that's sorry, long answer to that. So that question, but there's never a short

answer in any of this.

Kingsley Colley (41:53.801)
No, no, that's great. And you brought a lot of clarity about how it actually works because I want to in a minute go into one of the reasons I know that you started doing the work you're doing right now is because you couldn't find the right treatment anywhere in Australia as such. But before I go there, I want to ask parents who might be seeing something going on and they're just

Is there something, is there not something? What would be your suggestion for what they should do?

Mark Forbes (42:29.272)
Look, our team at our House of Hope run on a Thursday night, and this is only relevant to the sunny coast, but we do have parents come up from Brisbane for it. They run a parents carers group. then parents and carers, if they have us sneaking suspicion that something's going on they don't understand, then they can come to our lived experience team and ask any questions they like, and they're not being judged, obviously. But then there's another organisation called

EDFA, Eden Disorders Family Australia. They have great parents carers support networks as well, and other online support. So there are some great organisations out there that parents and carers can reach out to. If they if they have a suspicion that something's going on and get it get their head around it, get a better understanding around it. The hardest thing is to if someone's and an eating disorder can be in a house for a couple of years before you even

know it's there. Especially in a busy family when both parents are working and it's coming and goings and yeah, everyone eating their meal. Yep, everything's good. Where you know, the person could have snuck the meal away and not eaten it or eaten that and eaten hell of a lot more. So it can be in the house for a long time before the parents in care is actually know what's going on. So it is.

It is something that's very difficult, but the person with the eating disorder has to, has to own it too. And this is the hard part. Someone with an eating disorder getting back to the girl in the car, she thought she was in control. So therefore I haven't got a problem. I'm in control. Yeah, I've got a few things happening here, but that's all right. I've got it. Until the eating disorder is in the driver's seat and she's in the back.

And then she realizes she's lost control. Eating disorder has total control of her life and where it's taken her. And it's that point then that someone either goes, puts the hand up and goes, I have this issue. I need, I'm ready for help because my life's now out of control. I don't know how to rein it back in. I need help. But to have someone get to that point, that's the difficult part because most people, even when their life's out of control, believe they've got, got it under control. Um, you know, we've, we've seen families.

Mark Forbes (44:50.832)
who bring their loved ones to our house of hope, the car pulls up and the person won't get out of the car. But our team celebrates that and they go, I'll jump in the car with you. So they sit in the car with them and go, let's celebrate the fact that you're here. Let's just do that for starters. And then you can see after a while.

Our team will go, well, would you like to come and explore our gardens? Because we've got this beautiful, peaceful park with bridges, streams, yoga decks, gardens, and all sorts of stuff. So you just take gentle steps and you can see them. Okay, well, I'll venture out and have a look at the garden. Doesn't mean I'm going to stay or take part in any program. That's all right. So you just gently, it's a baby step approach. And this is where we're very different than other approaches because it's very full on, front on.

Kingsley Colley (45:20.146)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (45:42.246)
very gentle in that approach because it's easy when you finally get someone to own it that is a celebratory moment and that needs to be embraced. it's a brave movement, a brave step for that person to actually put their hand up in the first place.

Kingsley Colley (45:59.914)
Mm.

It's interesting because, and I know she won't mind me saying this because she actually talks about it quite openly now, but my daughter and I didn't even know till years after, my daughter actually had bulimia for two or three years and sit around the family, dinner table, eating, everything was good. And like I said, I didn't even know. And hers is tracked back to bullying at school when you look at it. Now, fortunately, she is actually a personal trainer and nutritionist, sports nutritionist.

Mark Forbes (46:23.736)
Yeah.

Kingsley Colley (46:32.101)
and helps a lot of women with their diet and their exercise and everything, does all that sort of thing. So she's actually turned this around. And actually, that's her job now is helping other people with this, which is fantastic. And she's actually going to come on the podcast and tell a little bit of her story and how she helps people. But I, as a dad, and I'm very close with my kids, I'm very close, but I didn't even know that until years down the track afterwards. So.

I think one of the things is for parents who, if you're not noticing, not seeing and see something come up, try not to feel guilty because for me I look at this and go, how did I miss that? Really, as close as I am with my kids, how did I actually miss that? And so for parents who might be feeling that way, what would you say?

Mark Forbes (47:17.059)
Go.

Mark Forbes (47:29.324)
Yeah, I'd say it doesn't do anybody any good taking on that guilt. You shouldn't take it on in the first place. But taking it on doesn't help the situation either. Find out research and find out as much information as you can get in touch with organisations like ours like EDFA and others that are around Australia. But do not sit do not sit in that.

in that seat of guilt and blame. Because you get back to the genetic makeup, it was there. It was going to happen at some stage. So yeah, the best thing you can do is embrace it as best you can in a way. And, and skill yourself up on the knowledge that you need that you're going to need to work with this.

Because yeah, it's a typical to like, remember even my father through all this and like you were saying earlier, just don't get it. and a lot of people see it as, Oh, yeah, it's just some young person who wants to look the best they can. And they've turned to this to make it happen. It's a lifestyle choice. Yeah. No, it's who would choose this? Who the hell would choose this as a way to live your life? It's not a choice. Um,

Kingsley Colley (48:52.49)
Because from the outside you don't… And I'm getting a lot of great information even right now talking to you. But you have no idea what's going on in the mind and the body and the brain and everything else that's happening. You have zero idea about any of that. You have your preconceived ideas as like, OK, yeah, you want to look good or whatever it is, simple like that. But that's all for the most part. Most of us actually understand or know about it.

So take me to a little bit about, and I wanna understand, cause we have a bunch of listeners and viewers from around different parts of the world as well. So I wanna understand, so people who are overseas who may be watching, listening and needing somewhere to find out a little bit of help somehow or ask some questions, A, what can they do? And obviously that varies from country to country, but I'm sure you've got some ideas, but also the reason that you actually, or one of the reasons.

you went so heavily into this is because when you tried to find help in Australia, you didn't find anything that specifically answered the questions or gave the help that was necessary.

Mark Forbes (50:00.11)
No, not at all. And we spend a hell of a lot of money, especially when they were youngest, because my wife would be up till two in the morning researching around Australia, but also overseas as to what's available to work to help, you know, and it's not.

It's not a cheap exercise, but it never becomes about the money either. It becomes about saving your daughter or your loved one. But, know, a normal program would cost $30,000 a month. Yeah, that you can find. But what we and we tried a number of those around Australia. We even tried overseas for some of these models that said, we can fix it all. But they're all saying the same thing. And it took us a long time to educate ourselves and work it out for ourselves.

Kingsley Colley (50:28.532)
Whoa.

Mark Forbes (50:48.837)
All these, all the centers that we were sending our loved one to, they said, yeah, we can cater for, drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, you name it. And we've got all the staff, we've got the team, we can fix it all. We found out the hard way that none of those rehab, none of those, places worked because

Food was the thing, you know, for an eating disorder, food is the thing. So they'd walk into a place and here's a smorgasbord of food every day. So there's no one there helping them navigate that. So these places were treating everything the same way, no matter what the condition was. So we quickly realized that you needed, well, we didn't quickly realize, it took us a long time, but you needed a place that specifically

deals only with eating disorders. It is so different. So we looked at the states and found that Carolyn Costin, a wonderful lady and her partner Bruce, had been doing, again, lived experience lady as to why she started this in the first place in the states. She started a residential model some 35 years ago. And the states, when we started looking, had 40 residentials up and running. And yet here in Australia, we didn't have one. So

we thought, there's no point reinventing the wheel. So we met up with Caroline and partner Bruce, had a look at the residential stay had and now are existing homes that they had bought and fashioned into something suitable for a center. then now Carolyn's got out of all that, but she's got her own online, Carolyn Costin Institute.

And you can do recovery coaching courses through the Carolyn Costin Institute online, which some of our team have done. My wife's done it as well. But anyway, we had a look at that and realised that, this is a model that's been tried and proven. So let's just Australianise it for want of a better word. So we come home and sat with our architects. We luckily got these architects on board and said, we're in this. We won't charge you a cent for whatever it takes.

Mark Forbes (53:12.75)
with them and a lived experience, one of our lived experience team. And we did Zooms with Caroline and Bruce from the States. And we designed this facility that's now called Wandinerida at Malula Valley that is operated by the Butterfly Foundation these days. But that's a 14-bed facility that we designed and built. okay, so we had a design, but we didn't have the property. So I drove around the coast looking at probably 15 different properties.

Kingsley Colley (53:34.025)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (53:42.592)
And each one sort of ticked some of the boxes, but not all. And nothing really grabbed me until one day I made a mind and said, well, this is 25 acres at Malula Valley. Why don't you have a look that? I drove in, drove up the driveway. I didn't get out of the car. I just went, oh my God, this is it. This is it. It had an old four bedroom home on it, but it had a 2000 square meter horse arena and 25 acres of beautiful land. And I just knew that this was it.

So I met the owners and they were living there, a German couple, and he was pretty gruff. And he said, mate, I'm sick of tire kickers. If you're serious, here's the contract. Sign it now, unconditional, or get off my lane. So I signed it, unconditional, not subject to anything. And went home and told my wife that,

what just transpired. So we didn't have the money. So we put our house on the market to secure the so we could secure the property. And it took me a long time to get back in the good books over that one. It was it wasn't wasn't. Luckily, we got a strong marriage. Put it that way. But anyway, we found the property. But then we needed 4 million to build it.

Kingsley Colley (54:50.607)
Yeah

Kingsley Colley (54:56.223)
Yeah.

Mark Forbes (55:05.11)
And then luckily our local MP, Andrew Wallace, federal MP, LMP were in power at the time. His daughter also was on a journey and he used to come to our meetings. We started by opening up our house at Padena to parents and carers on the journey. And Andrew turned up and talked of his journey and what he was doing. And that's how it all started. And everyone's saying the same thing. There isn't a residential. So anyway, Andrew took me to Canberra on a number of occasions and I got in front

Greg Hunt, Malcolm Turnbull, Scott Morrison.

You name it. was, I was front and center in their face saying we need your help. and then Greg Hunt said, yeah, okay. Well, yeah, it sounds simple, in the short version is, we'll give you a check for 2 million, but, we haven't ever dealt with you as a charity before. We've only dealt with the butterfly foundation. So you knew you'll need to do a joint venture with the butterfly foundation to make this happen. So we just went, that's what it takes. That's what it takes. So.

Kingsley Colley (55:42.293)
Thank

Mark Forbes (56:08.366)
So here we have it. We've secured the property. We've got, um, two million from the federal government. I rounded up one million in kind from local businesses on the coast. I would go to every meeting I could find, tell a story. And nine times out of 10, I'd walk out with two or three business cards with people saying, well, I'm a plumber. I'll do the roof for you for free. Or I'm an electrician. I'll do the electrical work. Um, and then we come across this, uh, local philanthropist, Roy Nola Thompson.

Um, and they had lost their niece to anorexia suicide years ago. He heard about the journey and he's old school. Didn't have a mobile phone or laptops or anything. It was post. So I got his address off the mayor and I, and I posted him, I went physically put it in his post box, what we're trying to do. And, uh, he. Come back to me and said, look, I'm, having a meeting on the case in a few months. I'll talk to you there. So I didn't know the meeting was it was the Thompson.

Institute and Roy and Nola had donated 14 million to the Thompson Institute to get it off the ground. So here's the opening ceremony for the Thompson Institute. Greg Hunt flew up from Melbourne and Andrew Wallace made sure I was sitting at the table with Greg Hunt and Roy and Nola Thompson. So Roy said, so where you at with this thing you want to build? You posted me and I said, I've got the drawings in my pocket. So I pulled them out. We had a look and he's showing his wife.

And he said have you got anything out of this bloke over here point to Greg Hunt and I said well we're going upstairs to have a chat after Breckie So it was then it started the ball rolling with Greg Hunt Anyway, I come back down after that and Greg Hunt said look Yeah, I think we can help you but leave it with me and I've come out and Roy and Nala Thompson were walking out and they said where'd you go with old mate? And I said well, yeah, he's committed to helping us. He goes. great. Have you got a business card? So I gave old Roy my card. He turned to his

wife Nala and it'll be something I'll take to my grave and said

Mark Forbes (58:13.55)
Dallas, we just bought this guy's business card for a million dollars. And I just said, excuse me? You said, you, mate, you got to do the project. You can't, you need the money. So come around Monday, I'll write you a check. So I gave Nola a hug and a kiss and he said, you're not kissing me. And I said, bloody oath I am. So I hugged him kissed him. So we went around Monday and sure enough, he's old school. Here's the Manila folder on the desk and here's the old checkbook. Who do you want to make out to? Oh, our charity, Andy.

is million bucks see you later

So we banked it and the rest is history. built it, you know, and we, my wife and I moved to site then in the old fob we had drawn home with our granddaughter and our project managed to build. And we got a local builder, Ben Murphy at the time on board and he did it at cost, open book at cost. And it was an amazing project to do. got, my brother had a boiler making shop at the time. He got involved and did all the steel work for me. Other brother had.

sandblasting and painting set up. He sandblasted and painted it for us. Sun and Law had a carpeting business. He did the carpets. So became a family as well as coastal community, bloody feel good opportunity and outcome. was sensational. It was one of the best projects I've ever had anything to do with. was the feel of it every day. People would turn up and it was a new tradie on site. Do you know what this is for? Nah, I'll tell you.

Kingsley Colley (59:31.103)
absolutely.

Mark Forbes (59:46.56)
And you know, and they go, yeah, like the crane or black turned up on site and I never met him and he owned the company and I told him and he said, I'm in there and I'll provide the crane or for free. didn't know the story. Okay, great. So it was that sort of work environment, which was absolutely sensational. yeah. So we built that. and then, we left that with the butterfly foundation to run because we knew that was stage one. That was a residential 90 day stay. and then we moved.

on to the day program house. getting back to sorry that check for two million, Andrew Wallace said he was in Canberra and he said, get on a plane and come down, we want to do the announcement about this money. I went great. Okay, so I jumped on the plane and went down, went straight into his office. He said, take a seat. It's not about the two million. I said, What do you mean? He said, we're about to announce 70 million. I went, he said, well, Greg Hunt, and the ministers, we all agree.

Every state in Australia should have one of what you're doing. So we're committing $70 million to make this happen.

Kingsley Colley (01:00:54.549)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (01:00:55.342)
I was flabbergasted and of course he goes, right, come on, we're out in front of the cameras. So I'm immediately in front of the cameras with this announcement of 70 million and I thought it was going to be two. Not that it came to us, obviously, it went to the states then. And now Australia's got five. So from, you know, when they say little things, big things grow, well, that's, it's, now it's an amazing outcome. When Australia's got five, that started from a discussion in our house at our table with locals and friends.

Kingsley Colley (01:01:06.027)
Yeah.

Kingsley Colley (01:01:14.164)
Yeah, certainly do.

Mark Forbes (01:01:25.296)
to where it is now. It is so rewarding.

Kingsley Colley (01:01:27.542)
You know what, that story is like mind boggling, like just way over the top, mind boggling that whole story. When you think about it where what's happened is you've got a family is going through tragedy, trauma, heartache, everything that's going on that you can't work out and you can't get any help in the country. So you get somebody's with a little bit of passion and desire and pushes this.

And obviously I'm oversimplifying it, but basically from there, you've got help around the whole country in every state and money from the federal government, like lots of money from the federal government to go and implement this. That is, I don't know if you've sat back and looked at that, I'm sure you have, but that is an incredible, incredible achievement for you. But also I know you don't think about you, your thoughts about how many people can we help and how can we help.

And that is absolutely phenomenal. I'm blown away. That's amazing.

Mark Forbes (01:02:31.95)
Thank you. And I suppose, Kinsley, you know, getting back to how do you handle it as a parent, that was my way of handling it too, you know, to get in and make change and stop whinging about it. Get in, pull your big pants up and get amongst it. know, so that's become my life now. That is me. My wife will tell you seven days a week, but I'll try and make it six. That's me. That's my life. You know, I'm out of bed at early hours and

Kingsley Colley (01:02:54.583)
Hehehehehe

Mark Forbes (01:03:01.654)
you're answering emails and calls and whatever, then you're down at the charity house because there's so much more happening that we can get into actually of what's going on.

Kingsley Colley (01:03:10.026)
Can you go over, because we are getting time wise, we're getting up there unfortunately, but can you go over a little bit, because I know there's another two stages to this and there's a whole bunch of other stuff going on, but there's another two stages that you've put together you've seen and need for to make this work effectively.

Mark Forbes (01:03:26.016)
Yeah, well obviously the Indead House I hope. When we got out of the residential we...

We actually pulled the million dollars back from the project that Roy and Nola Thompson gave us. And that allowed us to buy the property at Wumboy for our charity. It's in our charity's name. And it was a nine bedroom home on three acres. we converted the, we lived there actually. lived, we were being gypsies. We lived there while we set that up and our granddaughter was there. And now that's, that's operated by the team on a daily

basis, we've moved out and finally got a house back to ourselves. But yeah, that's where a little bit experienced ladies operate and the bedrooms are converted to support rooms. And we get allied health now come into the space because it is such a large space and the three acres is a peaceful park. So we get allied health now come into the space, who bring in their own clients. So it's become a mental health stop for a lot of different things. It's no longer just

about eating, it's primarily about eating disorders there, but it's bringing in a lot of other allied health specialists who work in other mental health fields that it all crosses over. So it's a fantastic experience to be there on day when you see that everything in flowing and everybody utilizing that space to get support for a lot of different reasons. But then when we're living there, setting that up directly across the road is a 10 acre block of land. And this is the universe continually to work and deliver.

There's an old couple there and he used to call me Blake and one day Blake we're moving out come and have a beer have a chat We're moving up north There's a two-story brick home on that 10 acres We don't want to go to market we'll get a valuation obviously your charity if you think you can use it and you meet the valuation that's yours so again, I went home and said my wife we haven't got the money but All we do in the super we could use

Mark Forbes (01:05:31.514)
So we used our super, we bought the 10 acres. And then we had the vision of, let's develop a short term accommodation village here. So that because we had so many people coming to us for support and yet couldn't afford to stay on the coast or couldn't find anywhere to stay to get support.

So then we went to the LNP government prior to the state election and said, this is what we want to do. And they said, right, if we get elected, we'll commit 1.9 million to help you make it happen. Because I said, here's a partnership. We've used our money to buy the land. We're asking you to commit just as much to build this village. how I made the power to that is too, there's a company at Pimpermar called East Wharf. They get kids off the street.

get them into a Cert I certificate and they assemble these tiny homes. So we partnered with them and said to the LNP, can you not support this? You're getting kids off the street, you're getting skilled up. That's what you want to do, stop the crime. And these homes are coming to us to support people. And we partnered with another organisation who works in the domestic violence space. So we sold that story and built it. And April 1st, it opened its doors. April 1st, opened. David Chris O'Filly came

up to open it. April the second it was full. So now we've got this beautiful pathway of people finishing the residential stay at one Vinerida now coming to get the second stage of support and that's in the village from our charity directly across the road. So it's all linking together beautifully. But on that 10 acres too, another guy came and saw me and said, I love what you're doing. I had this community projects garden down in Varela.

Kingsley Colley (01:06:51.288)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (01:07:17.776)
and he said, well, I'd like to reinvent it here on the coast. I said, right, how much land do need? So we worked out two and a half thousand square metres. We marked it out and I ended up renting it to his organisation for $10 a year. Unfortunately, his organisation ran out of funds and they stopped the program in December. But I said, look, this is too good a program to fold. What it does is insane. So we took the guy on ourselves.

and he's on our payroll and he now works with M-DED. And these community produce gardens, we get a bus of disadvantaged youth come in to work the gardens with him three days a week. And in the time that it's been going, it's donated 2.8 tonne of produce to urban angels here on the coast and urban angels deliver 15,000 meals a month back to community.

Kingsley Colley (01:08:14.347)
Wow.

Mark Forbes (01:08:15.818)
So for the last three years, Urban Angels have been coming to our house to help delivering meals to people that we support. And now they deliver and go to the property, pick up the produce and take it back to the kitchen. And then you've got the disadvantaged youth coming in to...

to see that and to feel it. then, you know, they're getting a hell of a lot of reward for it because personally, because they can see that they've nurtured this product to the picking stage and they're actually there handing it over to Urban Angels. So it's a beautiful story. It works so wonderfully well. And there's more to come in 8-8 year.

Kingsley Colley (01:08:48.536)
Mm.

Kingsley Colley (01:08:55.308)
That's, but I am blown away, absolutely blown away. And it has to be pointed out that this sort of thing doesn't just happen. This only happens when someone's got a vision, someone's got a passion, someone's got a lot of guts to do what you've done and prepared to take a risk and put out there. And it's, and the funny thing is that all the way through you've done this for other people. It hasn't been about you and you can see that in the story. And that is just.

Absolutely amazing, the difference. now the full circle. And I think this is quite funny that you've got people with eating disorders and now part of what you're doing is actually producing food to help people that way.

Mark Forbes (01:09:36.792)
Thank you.

Exactly right, Kingsley. that's a good point. And it's a slow introduction for somebody who's got food failure, if you want to label it that. And what we find is our team will do cooking days. then, you know, some of them will go, well, no, I can't do that. But I might sit and watch. Yeah, okay. Well, and then they get involved in the chat. And they might be doing a bit of artwork while the cooking is going on, but they're involved in the chat. And then next week, you see them up there

cutting the veggies and you go, okay, you're getting closer. And then they're still not partaking in it, but they're preparing the food. Now they can actually go down and pick it themselves. So that can be part of all that process and still not have to face the phobia until they're ready. So, you know, they're getting more comfortable and familiar with it and they can see the benefit it's giving others and it's a slow process, but then they're actually sitting down and having meals.

Kingsley Colley (01:10:13.551)
You

Mark Forbes (01:10:38.092)
with the team. Beautiful to watch, absolutely so fulfilling and rewarding to see.

Kingsley Colley (01:10:44.419)
And what a way to introduce that such a subtle, gentle, easy way of introducing that whole thing without any pressure.

Mark Forbes (01:10:54.222)
Yeah. And again, that comes from the lived experience side from the team that they have, they were there. they know you can't fast track this. You've, you've got to take it slowly step at a time, baby steps. Sure. You don't want to do that today. That's fine. Just sit and do whatever you want to do. Do some art or whatever you, whatever, do a bit of yoga or at least you're here in the surrounds. And in some days, some, some of the days they're not booked into a program, but some people will turn up and just wander.

the peaceful park and spread a blanket and read a book because that's their connect space that's their place where they don't feel judged and they know they're safe there so again it's it's a beautiful thing to to witness I just feel privileged to be on this journey it's really changed my life it's changed who I am and what I am I relate to bit of an onion I've had to peel myself way back get all the layers off

Kingsley Colley (01:11:51.567)
You

Mark Forbes (01:11:53.559)
to really get to the grit of who I am and then rebuild myself through this journey. It's where it takes you.

Kingsley Colley (01:12:02.382)
That is a really, really important point. And I think what you said that, a lot of people, until you've actually lived through something like this, you probably don't fully understand that now you say it's a real privilege for you to be able to have gone through that and be able to do this for other people now. And I think when it gets to that point, I think you've made it to a certain level that very few people actually get to. And I think people who are going through hard times or...

interesting phases or whether it's trauma stuff or eating disorders or whatever, when you can actually get through that and understand there is a purpose behind all this, if I can go through enough and come out the other end and see that you can have the privilege of then going through and helping other people because you get it and you know what's needed out there for other people.

Mark Forbes (01:12:53.504)
Yeah, totally. It's certainly

You know, I even get some of my own family going, you know, when are you going to retire from this? And I go, I'll be doing this till I put the lid on because it has become my life, our life, you know, it is, I can't imagine doing anything else. you know, like I see friends and families overseas trips are on, you know, fishing trips or whatever. And I used to get envious about, God, I'm here doing this. They're out there doing that. But I know I can still go and do that, but they can't do this.

And that's where I feel privileged because of where I've been, the journey I've been on, I'm experiencing something that they weren't in their life to this degree. But I can still go and dabble in that. So that's why I feel privileged.

Kingsley Colley (01:13:27.277)
Mm.

Kingsley Colley (01:13:47.096)
I think, Mark, you've actually summed up the essence of this podcast in what you've just said. You've summed it up better than what I ever could. That's exactly what it's all about. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming and sharing your story and your journey very vulnerably and authentically and what's happening. People who might want to get in touch with you, what's the best way they can do that?

Mark Forbes (01:13:56.568)
Thank you.

Mark Forbes (01:14:15.138)
Yeah, look, our website is nded.org.au. And there is a mobile number on there. That's the charity number. But I don't mind giving my number out because, yeah, I'm here for people that are lost. So my number is 0407 592 932.

Kingsley Colley (01:14:36.216)
Love that.

Kingsley Colley (01:14:41.963)
Wow, that's the heart of a person that's there to serve and help without a doubt, right there. So, and follow you on Facebook, Instagram, how can people find you there?

Mark Forbes (01:14:56.162)
Yeah, look, NdeD, we're a Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn personally as well. So you can find me on LinkedIn as Mark Forbes. NdeD has got their LinkedIn. Yeah, we're TikTok, NdeD is on TikTok as well. It took a while to work out if that was the path we wanted to be on, our team have said, let's give it a go. So yeah, so we're very,

we're very easily to contact, that's for sure. And a lot of channels and pathways.

Kingsley Colley (01:15:29.739)
Awesome. And I definitely encourage people to do so without a doubt. A question I always ask before at the end of the podcast, I have to ask, what is, how would you say you create the life you want and leave a legacy that you're proud of?

Mark Forbes (01:15:48.844)
Repeat that again.

Kingsley Colley (01:15:50.851)
How do you create the life you want and leave a legacy that you're proud of?

Mark Forbes (01:15:58.302)
I thinking back and I was only saying this to someone the other day when I was I've been in business all my life since I was 20 I've never really worked for anyone but except my father when I did my apprenticeship

But thinking back to through all my journey in my businesses, I, if something wasn't working out, I would force it. would, I would, I wouldn't listen to the voice inside telling me, you know, just leave it. That's not going to work. I would force it to happen. And then later realize I shouldn't have done that. so what I've learned over through this journey, through this journey with this eating disorder is to give it over to the universe. mean, if someone said to that, that to me,

10 years, 11 years ago, would go, yeah, right, whatever. But now I'm the greatest believer in letting it go to the universe. Okay, you come up with a creative idea and you find a bit of a blockage or a pathway that's changing it, let the universe work it out. Because now a few months later, all of sudden, pop, this will come in, someone will come into your life or some organization or something will happen. And that's the piece you were missing.

I couldn't have forced it into place. The universe brought it to me. So I just let go now to the universe whatever I have, whatever I have planned and it works.

Kingsley Colley (01:17:24.186)
Awesome. Mark, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. That was brilliant. know, I'm sure everybody's learned a lot and gained a lot of insight and just how to understand people a lot better, what to do, what not to do, how to deal with it. And if there's personal situations, please get help. Sooner rather than later, obviously, is definitely the way to go. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and obviously everything that you were doing for so many people. And obviously,

a massive team behind you as well. It's not just you, there is a massive team. We do need to acknowledge that.

Mark Forbes (01:17:56.839)
fantastic team. Yeah, I'd be lost without them, that's for sure.

Kingsley Colley (01:17:59.375)
Yeah, absolutely. Mark, thank you so much. Have a fantastic day.

Mark Forbes (01:18:05.474)
Thanks very much Kingsley, appreciate the opportunity.