Tomorrow is Not Today

Ben Steel_Final Video
[00:00:00] There are five suicide attempts in the entertainment industry. Every week. Really? So that's what mental health has to do with the film and TV industry. Wow. Okay. So. Welcome to the tomorrow is not today podcast. You've already started to create the life you want just by being here. Designed for you as a business professional, so you can be physically, mentally, and emotionally healthy.
More productive, less stressed, and living a life you truly love. My name's Kingsley, and thank you for coming on another journey with one of our uniquely qualified professionals.
Ben Steele, thank you so much for joining us on the Tomorrow Is Not Today podcast. Yeah. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Mate, this is going to be a fascinating podcast, uh, based on the research that I've done, the history, uh, and everything that's gone on. Uh, we'll tell people a little bit more about who you are, open up your story later on, but, uh, obviously you [00:01:00] work, have worked and still work in the film and television industry, but at the same time.
You are into mental health and helping people that way. What have those two things got to do with each other? Um, from my perspective, I'd probably say, what don't they have to do with each other? It's that intrinsically linked. Um, we have really, uh, bad mental health issues in our sector, more so than the general population working in the entertainment industry.
They have, uh, symptoms of depression, five times higher than the general population. Symptoms of sleep disorders, seven times higher than the general population. And symptoms of anxiety, 10 times higher than the general population. There are five suicide attempts in the entertainment industry every week.
Really? So that's what mental health has to do with the film and TV industry. Wow. Okay. Okay. So. I've done my research before you come in here, [00:02:00] but you've just blown my mind. Totally. Now I get the sleep one because of the hours and how things are done and that sort of thing. But as far as the, the depression side of things, the anxiety side of things, uh, how does that fit in?
How, why is that the case? Yeah. So there's, so yeah, the long hours, the job insecurity, you vast majority of folks working in film and TV, are going from gig to gig, project to project, there's no certainty or security, which is a double edged sword in the sense that if things are actually going quite well and you are going from gig to gig, you have kind of this inbuilt thing inside you that you kind of, I can't say no to work, therefore fatigue, therefore burnout, therefore mental health issues can come about.
Um, but also if you're not fortunate enough to go from gig to gig, Then there's the downtimes in between what's happening. I've got all these loan payments on equipment or studio hire or whatever business side you're [00:03:00] in the industry and I can't pay my bills on my equipment and I've got no work. I've got no gigs.
It's really, really difficult. Heaps of competition in our industry because of factors like that. Um, toxic workplace environments. There's, uh, it's a hugely hierarchical industry. Where I'm sure you've seen stories and seen clips of actors losing their crap on set and behaving badly. We've got, you know, Me Too movements like the Harvey Weinstein kind of cases and what people in power can actually get away with.
They should, but they kind of do. So power imbalances. Make our workplaces unsafe. So there's, yeah, there's, there's a, there's a couple of factors there for you, but yeah, many, many issues in our industry that contributes those stresses contribute to poor mental health outcomes. Wow, you've just, you've just, I thought I knew a little bit, but you've just totally blown my mind [00:04:00] already with that.
Um, I'm going to delve into a little bit later on and you've obviously started an organization, um, which I really want to get into, um, in a minute. But before we go there. I, can you tell us a little bit about, uh, now a lot of people would recognize your face or your name from, uh, uh, obviously Home and Away is one.
Folks from a while ago, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From a little while ago. Um, and from other shows. But it seems like you've done pretty much everything that you can possibly do in a, in a film industry. Yeah. Yeah. So I was fortunate or unfortunate to just fall in love. With the film and TV industry at a really, really young age.
The first moment I stepped foot on stage when I was like six doing a poetry reading at school. and the audience was quiet, the adults actually shut up and listened to me. I was like, wow, there's a certain power amongst this. So I [00:05:00] felt like being on stage performing, that was kind of like home. That's what I was kind of meant to do.
And from that moment, um, I kind of made that my mission. So wow. At six. Yeah. At six. Wow. Took my parents about four years to convince that that's what I wanted to do. And they eventually, you know, hooked me up with like acting classes outside of school. And. There was an acting agent kind of involved at that point as well and I started kind of getting gigs.
So very much just had just wanted to work in this industry. I just loved it. Um, and, and, and took opportunities in other aspects. So yeah, so I've done many different roles from Running to PAing to assistant directing, lighting, camera, writer, director, producer, actor, like so many different roles. Um, and it was all coming from that curiosity and kind of love for knowledge and wanting to understand this industry, how it works, how it ticks, how the, how the people work, what do [00:06:00] they actually do?
So very, uh, yeah, just, uh, just a passion and obsession. One might say. That's really interesting how it wasn't just the acting or the writing or filming or something. You wanted to know how the whole industry worked and the people behind it worked. Was that something innate or what, what was it that made you, Cause that's, it's pretty rare thing.
Yeah. I mean, I just, I just, yeah, I just loved it. I just wanted to be around it. So examples, uh, some Melbourne boys, so growing up in Melbourne, um, in my school holidays, I used to, you know, when I was at a certain age, uh, in my teens, uh, You know, catch the train into the city and would like knock on doors of, you know, casting agents or production companies and just say, Hey, I'm really interested in this.
And they'll let me kind of hang out. I'd used to wander into the channel seven studios in Dorcas Street when you're allowed to when there wasn't that much security there. And as a kid [00:07:00] teenager, just kind of go, Hey, and yeah. They said, well, go sit over there and watch and just learn. So I just did it. So it was, yeah, probably quite an innate curiosity that I just, yeah, just, I just, I just, I knew what I wanted to do and I knew I just had to be around it and everything else was kind of up for grabs.
Wow. That's awesome. Because a lot of people would do what you've done. Like on stage at six, most of them be scared out of their minds, uh, for good reason. And then from there, you, you've, you've taken it on and knowing what you wanted to do at that point, that in itself is quite a rare thing. And I think quite a gift to a large degree.
Um, so then you started getting gigs. You, I know you went on, you did a few TV commercials and things like that. And then you started to get into TV, I think was next. Is that right? Yeah. TV and like, uh, small roles in films and stuff. Yeah. Right. Tell us a little bit about some of the, uh, the roles you've had and that sort of thing.[00:08:00]
Yeah. It's funny, actually. I was down in Melbourne recently, uh, at, uh, Uh, JMC Academy, um, and, you know, talking about well being and mental health for the students. And one of the lecturers there, Mark Gracie, uh, gave me one of my early acting gigs when he was directing a show. Uh, and it was a crime time. It was like a low budget kind of, uh, indie, indie kind of Australian, uh, crime kind of cop thing.
Um, so yeah, so anything from that to ABC, Phoenix, which again was another kind of cop show, uh, Breakers. Which was a kind of like a bit of a soap opera in Sydney in the maybe mid 90s, if I get my dates and timelines right, uh, yeah, like corporate videos, TV commercials, like I did so many different, uh, KFC campaigns over the years.
I don't know, I really just had. Chicken steroids in my blood or something. They just, you'd go, yeah, he's the guy. So I did like, I think I did about four different campaigns throughout different, um, you know, [00:09:00] periods of my twenties. And yeah, so just, yeah, just many different kinds of shows, water rats. I did a couple of different characters on that.
Cause that was, you know, one of our stable kind of long running shows, which we rarely have in Australia anymore as well. It's true. Uh, that was, uh, you know, an additional training ground outside of the kind of soap opera. So I was I think I did about three different characters on Water Rats over the years.
Wow. Yeah. Like baddies. Yeah, yeah. Like drug addicts and whatnot. It's interesting. So they used you, but you're a completely different character. Yeah. Yeah. They give you like a year or two kind of, you know, to change your look a little bit or something. And then, you know, I mean, it's, it's, that's just the way it unfolds.
It's not, you know, orchestrated that way. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Yep. Yeah. So just, yeah, a bunch of different things. Okay. No, that's, that's awesome. It's, it's good to get that industry and background because then I was at 2019. I think it was a, you wrote, you wrote and directed your own, uh, the doco. Yeah.
Show my son. Yes. Yes. [00:10:00] And that's where it all stemmed from, from what I can tell. Yeah, where the two, I guess, worlds merged or blended from the film and TV, you know, career, um, and wanting to understand what's happening in the mental health space in the industry and yeah, so that's where those, those worlds kind of merge.
So was that your, because I, from what I can tell, you've put together, together a series of, Nothing formal, to a large degree, but, uh, whether they're workshops or something for people to come along to help people in these areas. Is that, is that how it worked? Uh, with the Show Must Go On, or? Uh, with, with the mental health side of things.
Oh, no, it's a bit more formal than that, like with, uh, Screenwell, so the, the business to kind of, yeah, to help improve mental health outcomes. So, uh, yeah, so it's, it's, it's a bit more formal than that, like, uh, so yeah, so that's our kind of mission to kind of improve mental health outcomes. Initially, did you just put on some workshops or something and ScreenWell sort of came out of that?
[00:11:00] Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, so basically during, uh, the COVID years, uh, early COVID years, um, so my documentary, Just, uh, had its release was on the ABC and we're starting to tour around and do screenings at the end of 2019. Um, things, I think we did about five screenings around the country and had Q and A's and then, um, you know, COVID kind of hit.
So we had to stop all that. We were meant to be going to New Zealand with the film and a bunch of different places. Um, some of those screenings, we kind of turned them into online. Um, and then also because, you know, the industry kind of shut down, uh, for a time, uh, during COVID and certainly other creative industries shut down longer and more permanently than the film industry.
Um, but during those early years, um, uh, you know, leaders in the screen industry were kind of worried about the mental health kind of outcomes. And so we had enough. [00:12:00] I guess, organic experience in that space that, um, they asked for our kind of help and assistance. So we then did, uh, like four online kind of webinars in the early stages of COVID, which were kind of workshop, but a little bit more place for people to share and hear about mental health.
linking that to the COVID times and, you know, isolation and the impacts of that and what you can do to stay connected and things. Yeah. So they could actually go on and share their feelings, their thoughts, what they were going through a little bit in a, there was a little bit of that. Yeah. We had some structured kind of speakers as well.
Yeah. Um, you know, experts kind of sharing, you know, their perspective and that was geared towards, um, leaders, key creatives, performers. I forget the fourth one. We had four. Okay. Now that's, and then from that, uh, I believe Screenwell, Screenwell was, uh, born, developed, uh, from that. Okay. Yeah, so that, that is funny actually, because [00:13:00] the name Screenwell was the title of those webinars.
Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's like Screenwell was that, that's where, that, okay, we've got to look after the well being of the screen sector. And that, that was, that's those, that's what those webinars were. Okay. And then. The name then evolved into, okay, I need to keep doing this work and then growing. And then, so I got some people together and just sort of, sort of, um, try to understand the next steps and draw, drew up some kind of plans and proposals and kind of action plans.
As far as what was needed. And that took probably about 18 months during the COVID kind of times. And then we, then we officially launched after that. So you've put a lot of, this isn't just something where we'll, Oh, let's help a few people here with their mental health. This is actually something you've put a lot of effort into.
And I, I believe there's three other partners involved in ScreenWell at the moment or founders or people involved heavily in that way, all of them have massive, uh, history in the. In the film industry. Um, [00:14:00] so what was it that I guess drove you to go, you know what? Somebody needs to do something about this.
Somebody needs to help people. Cause you get obviously what was going on in the industry. Yeah. Cause nobody was doing it. You know, there was a problem to be solved. Um, and I think quite often what happens in all aspects of our life. When we're faced with an issue or a problem, we kind of look for someone and see if they've got the answer or if there's an organization or if there's a answer.
And when we don't find an answer, we either have a choice to kind of do something about that and create an answer or, you know, try to find your answer somewhere else, I guess. So I guess for me it was, yeah, I needed to do something. And Based on that, you know, that history of, um, being in the industry so, so long, having my own kind of, uh, mental health, uh, challenges and experiences, so I understood that intimately what it feels like.
And then, um, making, making the movie and then, [00:15:00] yeah, starting to kind of be thinking about interventions and support groups and what do we actually need. It was a no brainer that nobody was, In that space, there were things happening in the music industry. In that space, there was an organization called support act in that, in that space, uh, in the live performance side of things, uh, like theater, opera, et cetera, the art center in Melbourne had an organization called the arts wellbeing collective.
So those parts of the creative industries were being handled, but there was nothing happening in my part of the industry. So it was like, well, I need to do something. So I kind of, yeah, entered that space. So why do you think the other arts areas were looked after like that? But the screen, which I imagine screen is in relatively speaking, it's just as big as anything else.
Is it because no one had taken the initiative to do it? Is it not? It's driven from within, obviously for yourself, but what about the other industries? Probably the [00:16:00] short answer is like, and this is coming from a completely honest, truthful perspective on a day to day is it's hard. Yeah. Right. It's incredibly hard like to try to do this and to try to get support and to try to make change.
So whether others prior had looked at it and then decided not to, uh, but it's really hard. It's very, very hard. Um, you know, the, the arts wellbeing collective had the infrastructure, the brain, the funding, the connections, uh, of the art center, Melbourne. Very big organization, very, very heavily government subsidized, supported, very, very strong connections to sponsors, uh, links to government, government departments, you know.
So they have a lot to get that, you know, initiative off the ground. Yeah. Uh, the [00:17:00] support act was started out as a, um, kind of like a, a, a benevolent initiative. fund trust to help, uh, the music industry, people that worked in the music industry with crisis relief grants. And, um, and, you know, if, if physically something happened to them, like there's a, there's a story that they share quite openly.
There was a saxophonist that had an accident at work and lost their arm, and so they provided, um, you know, financial assistance to have a sax that could be played with one hand. Oh, wow. So they can go back to work. So they provided grants like that. So they had all that infrastructure, and that's backed by, um, APRA AMCOS, which is a very, very big organization, once again, that has connections to government, has connections to the industry, basically That's where royalties come from, from the music industry.
So Spotify, radio stations that play music, that all goes via that organization. So a very, very big organization. And then now they've evolved beyond just [00:18:00] crisis grants into the mental health and wellbeing space. So there was, you know, people at those entities decided that it was a priority. Those, you know, uh, organizations were formed.
And they're, you know, quite big. Nobody in my industry, we do have organisations, we do have Scream Rights, which is a collection agency, so we do have a Support Act version that way, but they didn't enter this space. We have very, very strong unions and guilds. They didn't, you know, in a big way enter into this space.
They, they do some things in the mental health space, but in a big way, they didn't make it a very big priority. So, you know, there were others that could have entered the space. And I often say to them when there's, you know, a little bit of inaction, I'm like, well, if you guys were doing stuff, I wouldn't actually have to do this.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really take my hat off to people who go through something, [00:19:00] see something needs a change, And actually then do something about it. And it sounds like a simple three step process when you say it like that. But as you mentioned earlier, it's hard. If you want to make change, if you want to influence people and make a difference in people's lives, the thoughts are fantastic.
But the actual, I always say there's a very big difference between theory and practicality. Um, and so by taking this on, it's, it's a massive endeavor that you've done. Um, and you've done a lot of training around this as well yourself. Not massive amounts, so I, I rely quite heavily on experts. Um, so I obviously bring my lived experience with mental illness.
I bring my industry experience, uh, and I'm an, uh, accredited, uh, licensed mental health first aid instructor. So that's the bit of training that I had about how to teach people how to have mental health kind of conversations. So, but as far as, you know, I'm not a counselor, [00:20:00] I'm not a therapist, a psychologist, not even a workplace health and safety kind of, you know, set for person.
But I rely heavily on experts. The way that I kind of look at it, it's like producing a movie. I don't actually have to know every role. I don't have to know every craft, every skill. I just need to know enough that I can bring the best people together to kind of make stuff kind of happen. Right. So now you're based here on the Gold Coast, correct?
Yep. And are you, uh, influencing all around the country with what you're doing with this? Yeah. So we're national, we're national. Okay. So when you first. Put this organization together like how did you connect with the right people to make a difference? Did you have a team of people who got around? You and said hey this would be really helpful like a board to help Advisors and that sort of thing or is it something you went you know what I'm gonna make a difference here Whatever it takes well, I guess fortunately because of making the show must go on I already had excuse me had [00:21:00] established connections with aspects of the industry, like the unions and guilds and some of the bigger kind of organizations and companies, I guess.
So they were on board and supportive during the making of that process and then the release. So those connections, I guess, were already established. They always need nurturing and, you know, people. Leave and move on and change. You need to keep building connections. Um, so there was that, but, uh, yeah, so we, we have, uh, two business advisors, um, one in the creative kind of sphere, um, that kind of advise and kind of help.
And like I said, we, we consult heavily with the industry. So with. Um, everything that we kind of do, we, we kind of turn to people and go, look, this is what we've identified. This is, you know, the research that we found. These are the conversations we're having. Does that ring true to you? Um, and this is what we're thinking about doing about it.
Do you think that would actually, is that what you need? So we consult quite heavily with the industry. We do lots of little, you know, check in kind of [00:22:00] research surveys on, every aspect of what we do. Uh, and then we bring in the mental health, you know, professionals or the workplace professionals as well.
Um, so yeah, we go through quite, um, rigorous processes with whether it's our training, whether it's our guides, our strategy at the moment, or we've got a three year strategy. So it's all, it's all that. It's a very well oiled machine. Well, uh, oiled, I guess, well thought out and there's a lot of work. It probably needs a little bit more funding for oil.
So when it comes to people actually, uh, in the film industry, I imagine it's anybody from crew to, to the actors, writers, directors, you work with everybody in the screen industry. Is that right? Yep. And post production as well. So editing kind of side of things too. Um, and we have consulted with the games part of the industry as well.
Okay. Okay. We're not from the games aspect of the screen industry, um, [00:23:00] but yes, and we're doing, um, quite a lot of conversations to kind of understand the similarities or the uniquenesses of that part of the sector, uh, and because, you know, there's a lot of issues there as well that we want to try to help with, uh, and bring this kind of, I guess, expertise that we're growing, um, in the, in the screen sectors.
So it can truly be. A screen sector initiative, not just film and TV. Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. So, as you mentioned before, um, it is one of those, uh, industries where if things are going well, it's fantastic, uh, to a degree. Uh, and if things aren't going well, you gotta, you know, am I gonna get this gig? Am I gonna get another job type of thing?
So it is a little bit sporadic for a lot of people quite regularly. Do you find that, um, people are really trying and based on mental health issues and things like that, some of them just like, you know what, it's, it's too much. I just got to go back and get a job and they don't, [00:24:00] maybe not come back here or, um, what's the effect.
On people with that and how are you actually helping them? Yeah. So that's, that is a, a, a big reality for, for many people, um, you know, at various points in their lives or their careers, it can be, you know, um, new folks entering into the industry. Now these, the, the younger folks that are going through film schools or doing some kind of training and then coming into the industry and then they can step foot in it and they're like, this is terrible.
This is a terrible industry. I don't want to work in this. And they leave. So we're investing a lot of money in training, but we're not improving the health and safety of the sector and people are leaving. Then there are people that have been in there, you know, in your 20s or a bit more resilient, a bit more robust, you know, you can kind of have less sleep and live off adrenaline a bit more.
And, um, you know, you've got that, you've got your [00:25:00] future ahead of you. You've got hope that where you are right now, you're not going to be here forever. Um, you know, and so you're living off that. So those folks then. You know, start to age and then start to have this fatigue, you know, that's, that's creeping in, which can lead to the burnout.
And they go, yeah, you know what? I don't want this industry either anymore. I've given 20 years of my life to this industry and I love it, but I can't do this anymore. So we've got people leaving there. These are the issues that I'm trying to solve. And it can be quite difficult to get the leaders of the industry to think of it from this perspective, rather than, well, we just need to train more people.
And it's interesting because, um, obviously you've had a lived experience as many of us, not many of us, but a number of us have. And that gives you I guess a better perspective on what's actually really going. But if you haven't sort of, I guess, experienced thing, or if it hasn't affected you to any great deal, [00:26:00] then it can sometimes be, uh, it's not that important.
We just train more people type of thing. Are you finding that's partly maybe what's happening? Yeah, possibly. I think it's also like a lot of the things, so what we're, Essentially what we're talking about here, what I'm talking about is changing culture. Right. Culture change takes a long time. Yes. This is the way we've done things.
This is the way we do things. We can't change. There's consequences if we do that. You know, there's realities that we have to face. You know, can we really, um, not have hierarchy in the film and TV industry? You know, probably not. Um, but there's aspects of that and that power imbalance. And when As an example, you know, stars ask for something, they get their first class trip and bring their mum here and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, yet a crew member needs a little extra overtime or another person to help them out for a [00:27:00] day because they're struggling and they don't have, you know, as many hands as they need, no, we don't have the budget for that.
So, psychologically, what does that say? Yeah, yeah. To the people. But then you're putting pressure on one person, yet you're helping somebody else, maybe for good reasons as well. The star maybe needs that support to do their job or something, you know, who knows? So, and this is not, you know, star bashing, but that's just one example of what can happen or that the, um, director or the creator of the show, the show runner, um, you know, is this, you know, genius.
Which they can be, they can truly be, but therefore does that mean that we put up with bad behavior at all cost? We should not. It's a workplace. Yeah, actually, that's, that's probably what a lot of people don't understand, I think, is that very fact that it is a workplace. Because I remember, uh, reading, because I was always [00:28:00] fascinated with why, uh, Actors and stars got paid massive amounts of money.
And so then I went and, um, this was years ago and read, I think it was how MGM started. Um, and basically when films was first starting to happen. Um, they just got all the big stage stars who were already used to, um, having all the money and that sort of thing. So it sounds like what you're talking about is something's been bred in right from the very beginning of the film industry.
Yeah. And there's a certain amount of truth to it. And also let me clarify this, like as far as star wages or whatever as well, like there's a lot of outgoings that stars have to pay as well. They need security, they need PAs, they need, they need a lot of assistance and managers Lawyers and all that stuff.
So their big salaries often get down to 20 percent actually for them with all those outgoings. So that's, that is the reality from there's, there's issues at that end of the scale as well. Yeah. There's big issues that way. And the lack of privacy and the [00:29:00] media ripping you and the public ripping you, there's a lot and trolling and like.
Lots of really bad impacts for stars as well. So I don't want to say that, you know, there's no, there's no pressure at that end as well. Um, but yeah, I mean, yes, there are, there are things like you say like that. And then, and then also, uh, you know, stars have been exploited through history as well, like at MGM where you're on a contract and you have to stay with that studio historically, you know, so the power imbalance was, you know, As a way to keep the stars, you know, at bay in early days as well, where you're on that contract and you could not work at any other studio after, if you left, you know, if the conditions were bad or whatever.
So there's, I think, point being that there's, there's a lot of the way that we do things, there's a lot of cultural norms that have developed that aren't healthy. And a lot of the work we're doing is challenging those norms and that can be difficult for [00:30:00] people, particularly if they haven't had the experience, like you say, the lived experience.
Um, but it just seems so difficult to get to a different way. So it's maybe easy just to put your head in the sand. Yeah, yeah, which why what you're doing really is much bigger than what it appears on the surface. Because you not just trying to, uh, fix a mental health side of things. It is a culture of an industry that's been there since day dot and trying to, I guess, to really influence, you really need to, uh, influence some of the higher end people who have the money, who are the producers, who are all this sort of thing as well.
And it's even just down to the fact, again, the way that we do things, we are incredibly fortunate in Australia that we have national and state film funding agencies. Okay. Government departments that you apply for funding to make your movie or whatever or initiative or festivals, you know, [00:31:00] they can help with, you know, giving people, you know, money that way.
And there has been small pockets available to us. To do the work that we do as well. There's a lot of the time in this kind of culture change space, those government um, agencies are hamstrung because the ministers are telling them, well, there's, you know, there's, um, you know, mandates as far as what's the scope of work that you do.
And it's all about creating jobs and, you know, creating content, keeping the Australian stories going, which is all valid, valid reasons. Of course they are. Yeah. But they're missing this big component, which the industry is not a healthy and safe place to work. And the work that we're producing through the old mechanisms are making people sick and making people leave the industry.
So that brain stress, it's gone. They're leaving. So there's another pillar that we are lobbying. You know, when we get the opportunity to have meetings with government and government departments, [00:32:00] we're saying there's this other thing that you need to be addressing here. There's all this other stuff is actually.
You know, not going to improve or get better, you know. Um, so the agencies, um, they're, they're hamstrung. They kind of can't fund us to do really much at the level that we need it to be, uh, because of that. So, and I don't know if anyone has really tried to engage with. You know, government departments or with politicians, but, you know, it, it can be quite difficult to get time to explain what our research has found and what our plan is and, and what's happening in the industry to actually get that.
Like we've been growing our, our relationships with these departments, but it's hard. Like I'm still waiting on meetings for people that I've started at the beginning of the year. Yeah. Wow. You know, and I'm talking about people. Dying, killing themselves, having severe, you know, health problems because of their workplace.
And you can't get meetings with people. [00:33:00] Of course, there's many other causes out there as well as many people needing their time as well. And they've got a lot to contend with, but it's also, that's part of the problem. Yeah, I'm trying to change the way the industry is currently structured and funded and to do that because these people can't change it.
They can maybe speak to their ministers themselves if they have a meeting with them or something, but they've got other things they want to try to get in front of the ministers. So it's up to me! Another job for me to do to build the relationships with those people as well and tell them what's happening, what's really happening.
But that takes time. There's so many questions I want to ask you right now. My, it's like, where do I start? Which one do I go with here? Sorry, a bit, a bit of a rant today. Viewers. I apologize, but the reality of. Uh, the work that I do, but also the work that other people do and other charities and other, you know, uh, people with causes trying to make a difference, whether it's in the disability space, whether it's in, you know, domestic violence space, whatever, homelessness, all [00:34:00] those very, very valid, important issues.
But this is the actual groundwork and the frustration that you have to face. It's not just as simple as setting up an organization that. The industry needs so much other work that goes into actually doing the job of actually doing the training or the initiative. All this work and all this work totally unfunded.
Yeah. And that's, that's what I look at this and anybody who really wants to make a difference, it is, it's hard. And it's a lot of self sacrifice in doing that. And that's why I look at what you're doing and other people who do similar sort of things, but particularly in the film industry. You don't do this just because of, um, for the, the money you get from it or anything like that, because that, that doesn't, certainly don't do it for the money, but it's, it's a real desire and passion to help people and help an industry.
Cause I would, I would imagine that. Whatever the industry is like this [00:35:00] and not changing, that has to affect, uh, our industry on the world stage, um, the influence and the impact and the growth of our own, uh, crew, cast, um, everybody, as far as going out further into the world stage and getting on bigger films and things.
Yeah, 100%. And that's, it's, it's like what I was saying before, if, if we're trying to solve the cruise, cruise shortage issue or the retention of people issue with, you know, training more people in those jobs, we're not actually getting to the cause. Yeah. It's just going to be a churn and burn type of thing.
It's, it's like trying to solve any other kind of, you know, problem. That's a band aid solution rather than actually going to the cause. Like, uh, you need to actually go to the cause. What's that unpack this issue, you know? Um, And it does have those impacts, it does have those international impacts. It increases, it decreases, if there's [00:36:00] mental health issues, it decreases productivity, it decreases creativity.
We're a creative business, they're always on about the content, the creativity, how good it has to be, it has to cut through, we need to get the market, like we need to talk to our audience. The pressure must be enormous on the creative side of things to be able to produce all of that, I would imagine. Yeah.
And that in itself creates, An issue with mental health and stress and all that sort of thing. And getting creative and productive when you're like that is, it's quite enormous. So one of the things I'm, I love about having you here is because obviously most of our audience is business professionals. And, obviously there's a lot of stress and pressure and that sort of thing in, in those films, those areas.
But what we don't think about, we go to the movies to relax and enjoy ourselves. We flick on Netflix just to, just to chill out. But we don't think about what those guys are doing. And girls are going through [00:37:00] or have gone through and what it's taken to actually help us relax in this way. Uh, and I think for, for us as people in business, not in that industry to understand a little bit of that.
And when you do see things like the paparazzi and the, the trolls and everything else go on and you know, how much of it's true, nobody knows. But having a little bit of empathy towards people for where they're at and what they're going through and that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And I guess, um, for a big chunk of people that work in the creative industry.
So let's expand it out of film and TV as well. We're there. Um, we have, a lot of us have the belief that we're there to actually help society, like what we do. Like you said, relax. We can help people relax. We can help them take their mind off their problems. We can help them understand issues through documentaries or seeing stories reflected back.
So it's all [00:38:00] that humanity stuff that we actually contribute to, to give, uh, life meaning. Um, so it can, you know, it can be a horror movie can be a great kind of adrenaline kind of release and you know, the person that you're with or even strangers that you're with that cathartic kind of experience. Um, uh, songs and music can help people through relationship breakdowns are really hard times in their life where the lyrics just really cut through and the emotion that you can kind of feel and hear in, in, in the music can help.
So. The arts, a lot of us, I would say the vast majority, of course, there's some corporate kind of people in the arts, but the vast, that's why we do it. That's why we love it. That's why we do put up with. Bad conditions and, and, and certain things which we're trying to make not happen. Um, and, and where the six year old kid on stage has this bug and his passion.
And then from that moment on is fueled by this purpose of [00:39:00] trying to help people. Try it's, it's, it's a service giving, you know, yes, there are. potential aspects in certain roles in, uh, or, or, or certain artworks that there can be a lot of money. We all know, we hope that maybe it will be us, but we all know it's pretty unlikely.
It's a smaller percentage by a long shot. Yeah. And it's, I think one thing that you've helped me realize today as well is the fact that, you know, we see all the stars and the celebrities and we think, or you can easily think that's what the movies. And film and any sort of stardom or whatever is all about, but there's so much more depth to it.
And even though it's like the rest of us, you look on Facebook, all we see is people's the best parts of their life. And quite often all we see is the best parts of a star's life or see them on TV or whatever. And I would imagine the pressure of, okay, I've done that. Now I've got to go and do a photo shoot.
Now I've got to go and [00:40:00] sign autographs. And now I've got to go, all of those sorts of things, even though they do it with a smile on the face, And look quite happy and doing all that. To me, that's something else I have to do, which would amount to a pressure that we don't tend to tend to see it that way.
Yeah. A hundred percent. And another interesting one, which is, um, like a little bit of a smiles coming on my face to a certain degree, cause it's such a, it's such a weird one, but it is actually can be quite a hurtful one as well. Is that, um, within the arts, the general population, uh, like to comment. Oh, that was a good movie.
Oh, that one sucked or that song. I don't like that person. And they go straight to that, which is fair enough. I understand you're a consumer, you're buying the product, whatever. But at the same time, um, so there's this kind of like judgment of our work or we have to kind of prove ourselves our worth for the work that we're doing.
So quite organically and out [00:41:00] of the love of probably what we do, you have a conversation. Yeah, you know, I'm an actor. Oh yeah. What have you done? What do I say anyway? Will I know any of the things that you've done rather than, Oh, wow, you're an actor. That's cool. Um, so if we kind of equate that to other professions, you know, if you're meeting a doctor and they go, Oh, wow, you're a doctor.
Okay. Which surgery do you work in? How much do you make per year? Like, do you try and have value? Are they really a doctor or are they just saying they're a doctor? So, I get it, I think a lot of us get it that people are just interested and curious about our industry, but that can be really hurtful, particularly if you're not working and you haven't been working much lately as well.
Um, or you haven't been able to get the runs on the boards or, or whatever. Um, so the general population can actually just be really interested and curious, uh, by asking those follow up questions. Um, but also certainly judgmental about what they like and what they don't like. Um, [00:42:00] and can be quite harsh with that, and that certainly can roll into the troll kind of universe.
Mmm, that's actually a really good reality check. A really good reality check for the rest of us. Because I know sometimes, you know, people, if they're talking about watching a movie or whatever, it's like, Oh, this person's in it, so I've got to go and see it. Or, this person's in it, I don't really want to see it.
Yeah. Or I don't know them. Yeah. I'm not going to go to that one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, and yeah, you don't think about how, and that actually affects, cause they're actually people at the end of that. They're humans with thoughts, feelings, emotions. If, if I could ask you, um, what would be the important messages, say three important messages that you really want to get across to both people in the industry.
And people who make the decisions about cultural change. What would they be?
So probably going to the [00:43:00] top. So going to the leaders and people of influence. If you really want to make a difference, in the mental health wellbeing safety space or in the cultural safety space or the accessibility diversity inclusion space, you need to back it. You need to provide more than just the the will of that's what you want to do and maybe have a ticker box that you're asking producers to say, do you have a diversity plan?
You need to actually invest. You need to help the industry change. You need to actually get involved with the change and not just from myself and my own cause, but the other people that are advocating for other change in our industry. You need to back them. Because we're going to burn out too. We can't do this forever.
So if [00:44:00] there's any causes in the industry leaders that you want to change, you need to actively change, you need to reply to emails, you need to get back when you say you will, you need to do the work because these small organizations are tapped out, like, you know, just getting back to emails and following through on what you say you want and want to do, like the amount of emails and phone calls I have to make just to.
You know, keep on top of everything. Yeah. That's a full time job in itself, let alone all the other stuff I have to do. So that's the leaders. I say, look, if you, if you, if you, if you are resonating with these causes, if you are actually wanting some of these cultural shifts and changes in that industry, it's not enough just to have the will for it.
You actually have to do something about it. Um, and I would say, identify the people that are doing the groundwork that. have the knowledge that are working with experts that are, you know, that are strengthening and help them do that would be an easier path [00:45:00] than kind of go, Oh, well, I'm going to just do this little internal thing over here to help my part of the industry or the shows that I'm working on.
Great. If you can do that as well, but back people that are doing it, cause we'll disappear. Um, and I guess on the individual kind of side of things, um, yeah, I think, um, making sure that you, uh, finding those things that you can actually do industry hacks around the industry to, uh, improve your own mental health, wellbeing, and safety.
So, um, quite often, um, with, uh, just the unpredictability of our work and quite often we're shooting away or on location or shooting into state or overseas, um, we're not able to kind of, you know, be part of sports teams and things like that. We can't do those kinds of activities. We just can't commit to it because we'll let the team down.[00:46:00]
So, I mean, if you can find a team that you can kind of come in and out of great as well, that's a, that's a, that's a hack. That's a solution. But focus on the things that you can actually do every day, every week, every month, uh, to stay on top of your own kind of mental health. Um, so on the individual level, so what would you suggest some of those things could be?
Yeah. So I think, um, so connections to others. So who are the people that you need to stay connected to foster those relationships? Um, I think, Taking a step back, planning is the key. Like with anything, whether you're, whether you're writing a play or make, like, putting on a show, or writing a movie, or planning a shoot, you have to plan.
Your mental health and well being is exactly the same. So, have a bit of a plan. So spend the time, invest in that for yourself. Whether that is literally invest in it, like money and learn about it, or whether it's just taking the time and using some of our free resources that way to kind of [00:47:00] actually, okay, what do I actually need?
Um, yeah, so plan, um, and then social connections. What are you doing to. make sure that in the preparation that you're about to start on this big job, what are you doing to kind of, um, communicate to the people around you, um, how you're going to be able to stay in touch with me and while I'm working and, and keep those connections going.
So again, it's about that kind of planning. So social connections are so, so, uh, vital and important. How are you going to take a break? How are you going to chill out? How are you going to kind of relax? What are you going to kind of look forward to? So planning for that, that hope of like, I'm going to send some, you know, order some stuff on Amazon that will come sporadically during this shoot, even if that's relatively inexpensive and they forget what you've ordered anyway, and it comes something to look forward to is always good.
Can be a holiday as well. If you know, in the schedule, you got time off, like, what are you actually going to do? So, um, yeah, social connection. Um, [00:48:00] those are all breaks that you can kind of create for yourself during your day, during your week, during your time off as well. So yeah, it's, it's really just getting to know what your needs are, um, on the individual and kind of plan for that.
You may need to alter your plans because the industry is unpredictable and that's okay. Um, but plan for that unpredictability as well. Yeah. Yeah. They're great, great tips. Like, and obviously you've thought of those because you've been there and you've had to start putting these into practice and understand what happens.
That's, that's fantastic. Um, We, we do have to wrap up. I'm loving this. And I think what you're giving people is a massive perspective and some great ideas and thoughts about what needs to actually happen in the industry. And whether people are in their industry or they're in another business or something else, we can all take away what you've been saying.
And implement these things. And I think that's the biggest thing, like you were just [00:49:00] talking about, plan it and then do it, uh, which we all need to do. Um, and if things change, don't beat yourself up about it, that the plan didn't go to plan. That's okay. It usually doesn't. No, it doesn't. And then you just kind of adjust and you make some alterations and then get back on track.
So, but so small little incremental changes, they add up and the lack of those small things also add up in the negative way. So if you don't have those little things that make you feel good or those social connections, eventually. It will catch up. It will. It's just inevitable. Yeah. Over what period of time?
We're all different. We all have different needs. So it might on the social connections, it might take somebody 10 years before they actually turn around and go, Oh, actually, I don't have any friends. I haven't stayed connected to my family as well. So when I finished my job, Nobody takes my call anymore.
So it might take someone 10 years to realize that it might take someone two years because they need that more. So we're all different, but yeah, it's so true. Cause these things do creep up on us and we don't notice them. And that's one of the things I try to tell people is to be proactive with things, [00:50:00] not reactive because sometimes reactive it's too late.
Uh, but if we can be proactive and just implementing exactly what you just said. that will help all of those things immensely. Um, at the end of the podcast, I always ask a couple of questions cause we, uh, tomorrow is not today. We talk a lot about the ultimate tomorrow. Um, so what would be the ultimate tomorrow for you?
Scream World does not exist. I love it. Really? I, the industry is, you know, has got on board, got behind, you know, the movement has made the changes is thriving. We don't have retention issues anymore. Everybody wants to work in our industry. They're happy in our industry. They're fulfilled. They can have work life balance.
They can raise kids and look after elderly parents. They can do all the stuff that people want to do. Wow. They don't need me anymore. They don't need Screenwell anymore. It's the first [00:51:00] time I've ever had anyone say. That what I do doesn't exist. Put me out of business. Yeah. That's, that's the challenge.
Absolutely love it. The second part to that question then is how do you create the ultimate tomorrow? I think by just, yeah, knocking on the doors like what I'm doing. Um, yeah, there's, I don't know if there's any more that I can really do. No, it's, well, you're obviously working really hard. Yeah. And fighting hard.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't feel like there's, um, much more, I'm always open to new ideas. I'm always open to changing direction. I'm always open to, um, collaborating with people and working with people. Can't do this alone. Um, so yeah. Yeah. Anyone that wants to get involved and help, hopefully this podcast can help on that journey.
And in, in saying that, if anyone wants to get in touch with you, whether they want to go. And it could be a business person going, you know what, I want to support what you do. I see how important it is. Or it could be people that are just getting started going. I [00:52:00] need to find out if I want to get going and get in there.
I know it's going to affect what can I do. Or it could be anybody that's been in there for a little while. They want to get in touch with you. Maybe don't even know Screenwell exists. at the moment. How, what's the best way for people to get in contact with you? Yeah, the website. So screenwell. com. au.
That's probably the best way. Uh, and there's, you can, yeah, you can email us at info at screenwell. com. au as well. Perfect. That's easy. And there is a lot of good information on there as well, which is really good. I would encourage people jump on there, have a look, get involved because that's what you want.
You don't want people to be passive and go, Oh, that'd be nice. You actually want people to get involved as part of it. I'm open to listening to people. saying what they think I should be doing. And I get that quite a lot in, uh, uh, like meetings with leaders saying, Oh, have you thought about blah, blah, blah.
I'm doing this over there. Maybe you should go off and like, I want people to help. Yes. I need, I need the help. Yeah, exactly. We're essentially a one man band. I've got, you know, uh, Johnny, [00:53:00] who's helping, uh, a colleague in Melbourne, um, in at the moment helping in Sydney and my former, um, co founder Mark, uh, who's no longer involved.
So there's, there's been. You know, key, key people kind of, you know, helping along the way. And, and of course the industry that the, um, the industry, uh, people that we consult with, they, they offer their time, but essentially what I need is help. Yeah. Yeah. Help do what you're doing to help other people. Or help lobbying people.
Yeah, help lobbying people, keep this conversation going, direct people to us, uh, speak to MPs, speak to industry leaders, um, let them know what's happening. Let them know that there is, you know, there's this tiny little organization that's, you know, Punching above their weight, trying to do as much as they can to kind of help people's lives, improve health and safety for the sector and yeah, kind of need help.
Yeah, that's awesome. And I know like you getting around and speaking, the reason that you're actually here today is because someone I know, my daughter actually works for the Gold Coast City Council [00:54:00] here, who is very big into the, uh, the film industry in a lot of ways and very big into, I think, culture overall and helping in these, you know, projects.
areas. Uh, and you were speaking and she said, you've got to get him on your podcast because she was just trying to work out how to word it. But actually what you did had a massive impact on her, um, personally and what she sees happen. Cause she's in the industry as well and what she sees happening with people.
Um, so that's only one person. So the more that I guess, People get you to, to talk and can get your message out and all that sort of thing, uh, and the funding and be able to reach and influence more people, uh, fantastic. And I would encourage everybody to do that because it's an industry we don't often think of that needs help in this way.
Uh, and I think we need to. Yeah, thank you. Um, so I, I want to commend you. What you're doing. I [00:55:00] think is phenomenal. And to take on such a beast that you're taking on is pretty huge. And to have the guts to do this, uh, is a very rare thing. Uh, so thank you for what you're doing. And I can't say enough how much I appreciate you coming on to our podcast, uh, and being part of it today and the work you're doing.
And those folks that may be listening or, or watching, uh, if yourself, uh, in need or you're struggling quite a lot right now, um, yeah, reach out to help, reach out for help, whether that's, uh, directly with, you know, friends and family. Uh, let them know how you're feeling, whether that's, uh, you know, professional services, the anonymous helplines like Lifeline, Beyond Blue, um, just reach out for some help.
There's help there, um, and there is recovery just waiting for you. So it's hard. I've, I've been there myself. I know what it feels like. It can be really, really difficult, but, uh, yeah, just, just reach out and let people know how you're feeling and what you're actually going through. Fantastic. Ben, thank you so much for being on the today is not [00:56:00] tomorrow podcast.
I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Take care. Remember, create the life you want.